You live an unconventional life, so why should your physical fitness look anything like conventional training? Jay and Stephanie Rose of Phase 6 Fitness are on a mission to get the world moving, thinking, and feeling differently all from going back to our roots in terms of how we train. Utilizing tools such as kettlebells, the steel mace, and even just the human body through primal flow techniques they are leading the unconventional revolution in the fitness industry.
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Read the Full Transcript
Joe: [00:09] Cured Collective listeners! Welcome back to another episode. I’m super stoked about this episode. I’m sittin’ here with Jay and Steph Rose from Phase SiX Fitness. And they’re sittin’ across the pond – I say sittin’ here, but they’re sittin’ across the pond there, currently in the UK, and they’re doing incredible things. I got connected with them through Adam from Strong Coffee, a mutual friend, and first time we hopped on the phone, we spent about 35-40 minutes just shootin’ the shit and really connected. So, I’m super stoked to be working with you guys, but just to have you here on the podcast. Thanks for all you’re doing and thanks for your time this morning, and let’s – let’s dive in!
Jay: [00:51] Oh yeah! It’s great to be here. I am honored as well. That conversation that you and I had when we first started, we both said to each other from within the first 5 minutes this just a perfect collaboration and then the rest of the conversation was, how?
Joe: [01:14] It’s funny how that happens ‘cause you know in the first couple of minutes of talking to somebody – you said this very clearly, Jay, when we were talking – alright, can I, do I want to do something with these people or do I not? And it was very clear that when I was talking to you, I was like oh my god the first couple of minutes, alright, we gotta do something; now how do we do it? We were talking about a couple of things. We were talking about tattoos; you were talking about beards; you were talking about the unconventional mindset, right? And I think that that’s where a lot of your guy’s business is built. I want to spend a little bit of time to start getting a little bit of background on your guy’s self and then really discussing where Phase SiX came from. You guys – when did you guys come together and let’s talk a little bit behind that too, where you guys came from. You can take turns in whichever way you want, but I know we can go deep here.
Jay: [02:11] Yeah yeah.
Steph: [02:13] How we met.
Jay: [02:14] So, I’m from Australia originally. I moved to London when I was 19. I was back and forth because my parents moved back here when I was around 14, so I was back and forth, but came back here when I was about 19. And yeah, just ended up the corporate world and did all kind of the suit and tie stuff for a long, long time; earning pretty good money, but never satisfied; always felt like there was something bigger out there for me. And then it got to the stage where I just had enough. I say that we mutually parted ways, but I was fired, and I made sure they had every reason to [inaudible]. The tattoos got more and more, the beard got longer and longer – I was dealing with billionaires in high property real estate, and I would walk up with my rose petals on my hands and my beard and they just weren’t feeling it anymore, which I completely understand; but it was the best thing that happened to me.
Joe: [03:14] It sounds mutual to me, for sure.
Steph: [03:18] Me – I’m from London, and I was doing retail for so many years. And Jay saved me. He basically said, why don’t we go to Australia and just do our own thing there and start a new life. I was like, “Yeah. Sure.” So, I just kind of left my job. But, going back to where we met – it’s what, 4 years ago now?
Jay: [03:39] Yeah, it’ll be 4 years September 3rd. We met in a gym. I was still – my office was across the road from the gym. There was this one… I saw Steph – this is going to sound really stalkerish – but I saw Steph… I remember the day and everything. I saw Steph on Wednesday, she didn’t notice me, and from the moment I saw her, I knew I literally wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, and I would do anything to speak with her. There was this guy I used to work with who I used to train with, and I said to him – I literally said, “I would do anything to be with that girl.” So, it was on a Wednesday. Then, by the Friday I decided that I just needed to speak to her. So, in this gym that’s in southeast London, there’s a lobby part where you can walk through it and [inaudible]. And I finished my workout and Steph was there, and I walked past as I finished; and I got to a moment where I was about to walk out of the gym but decided to stay and wait in this lobby to see if she’d come down at all, and if she was to come down, I would speak to her. So, maybe 10-15 minutes went past and sure enough, she comes downstairs and she sits at the table opposite me. The best part of the story is she wasn’t alone, she was with her Mom, so she sat down with her Mom and there were – they ordered their dinner for the night. So, I abruptly interrupted their dinner and introduced myself. I met Steph’s mom and her the same day, and sort of got all that awkwardness out of the way.
Steph: [05:14] I loved it!
Joe: [05:17] I was going to say, you went right in. You went fully in to begin with. That’s how it works though! That’s how it works. I’d have to reflect the same, and it’s… I think the piece of it – and I would beg to guess, but – from that day forward, it’s never going to be easy. You guys have been through challenges yourself; but like, when you know, when you find that person and you feel it, it’s like, “Alright, I’m ready to strap in for this ride. I don’t know what’s coming, but let’s go.” And that’s super powerful.
Jay: [05:50] Yeah. Like you said, once you make the decision and you know – like not even second guess it – you know; and that comes with every decision you make. There’s literally no stopping it. And like you said, there’s rough times.
Steph: [06:05] Especially in Australia. When we lived there for 9 months, we came across some other challenges, just ‘cause we up and left. We didn’t really have a plan. It was like where to stay, where to eat, all this just basic stuff that we go through.
Joe: [06:18] Yeah, was that… I mean, did you leave your job then and then you guys went to Australia, both of you?
Jay: [06:28] Yeah, so what happened – when we met 4 years ago, I stayed in my job in this real estate for maybe – property development not real estate – I was a property developer for maybe another year. I left in September, I think, and by the January of –
Steph: [06:51] And I left in December. So, we had Christmas here and then we were just like, January, let’s go.
Jay: [06:56] It was another year before we left; so we left in January 2008. We left the UK, and that was after deciding – our original intention was to go to Australia, set up, have a life there, have a whole bunch of dogs on a property, and then live happily ever after. We didn’t really plan anything out, we just knew we were going. We found a place to stay, sitting at in airport in Bali, about 4 hours before we got there because our flight only took 4 hours to get to Australia.
Steph: [07:32] It was very last minute. But it was so fun. I never got the thought of oh my god, we shouldn’t be doing this. Not once. I was always just like, yeah we’re just going. This is going to happen. So, it was great.
Jay: [07:45] Had we planned it, then-
Steph: [07:47] It wouldn’t have worked.
Jay: [07:48] I don’t think it would’ve worked. You’re like, “Oh, what if this doesn’t happen? Or what if this doesn’t happen?” We go into mostly everything with a clear decision that it’s just going to happen.
Joe: [07:58] Yeah. I think we can prove a lot to ourselves that sometimes we don’t necessarily gift ourselves what we our capable of. For me, that has – I struggle with control and in that is wanting to plan what’s the plan, what’s going to happen next; but every time there hasn’t been a plan and there’s been a mistake or something’s come up that I didn’t expect, being able to prove to myself that oh, I can figure it out is like you get to the other side of that and you’re like, well shit, I can take on anything.
Jay: [08:35] It’s liberating know that you don’t need to plan everything. For the majority of people, they can’t comprehend it because-
Steph: [08:44] It’s different.
Jay: [08:45] Yeah, they might feel that they need everything planned otherwise things just aren’t going to work out.
Steph: [08:49] It’s security, isn’t it? Everybody needs security. That’s something-
Jay: [08:56] It’s basically becoming comfortable in uncomfortable positions, and that transcends through all aspects of life. That’s what we do with our training, that’s what we do with starting our company, like anyone with a company. It’s with others, your partners-
Steph: [09:13] Just diving in.
Jay: [09:14] Going through those uncomfortable moments in your life just to get through it and belief in the journey that you’re taking is all part of it.
Joe: [09:25] Yeah. So, it seemed like there was a love for fitness already, seeing that’s where you guys met. Let’s talk about Phase SiX and let’s talk about where it was born from. You guys went off to Australia; did you guys already have online communities? What was this evolution?
Steph: [09:44] We actually went out there with a company already, called Holistic Habits, and it was [inaudible]
Jay: [09:51] We didn’t know what we were doing. It was put together literally on one of those – when people just started asking-
Steph: [10:01] What are you doing now…
Jay: [10:02] Steph just graduated from her nutritionist course, and I’ve done the personal training course, and people were like, “Well, you’ve done all that, so what are you going to do now,” so we started Holistic Habits. There was no passion behind it, or anything like that, so it didn’t ever take off. Once we decided to go to Australia, we didn’t really know what we were going to do, so we just went there anyway. In that timeframe of 3 months of getting to Australia, because in Australia, to the place that we went to, called the Sunshine Coast, it’s super hard to get a job there.
Steph: [10:35] Extremely.
Jay: [10:36] Australia’s population is very low, so the jobs are even less.
Steph: [10:40] Especially as a Londoner coming in stealing the job. As an Aussie, that’s not going to happen, really.
Jay: [10:46] And Australia’s always putting the Australian first. If the Australian is suitable for the company gets it. It was pretty simple for me going back there because I’m Australian, but it was harder for me to get stuff than it was for Steph. Steph was able to get on Medicare easy and all this kind of stuff. So, we decided we’d start our companies to earn some cash flow. I started a car hire company, so I’d drive people around the Sunshine Coast, and Steph started a [inaudible – cake?] company.
Steph: [11:17] I used to sell it to the [inaubible] down the road.
Jay: [11:20] So, we started with different things, but it was still like – it still didn’t drive us or give us the passion that we needed even though we were earning enough money to live. So, the topic of conversation was back to what we were passionate about, which is fitness, and the unconventional side of training as well. So we were like, what are doing wasting all our time with all these different companies? Let this be what we wanted to do for a living, so we started Phase SiX. We started planning it around April and then we launched it in June of last year; so it’s only just over a year old.
The Six Phases of Fitness
Joe: [11:56] So, let’s talk about the pillars, the six phases. Then, I want to dive into what unconventional means to you guys and the current state of the fitness and bodybuilding world, and all that. Interesting stuff, which I actually came from that world as well, but let’s start with the pillars.
Jay: [12:20] Yeah, so our six phases are kind of evolving; they’re constantly evolving. When we started, the name Phase SiX came to me in a dream just before we were launching. We were searching for a name, and we put it out there and we just couldn’t think of anything. Then, I had a dream and all these number 6s came to me, like there’s always 6 stages in fitness, or there’s 6 phases of nutrition. I saw programming evolve because the old way of training started with, say, a 12-week program; then everyone’s attention spans gets shorter and shorter, so then it’s 8-week program. I just sort of kept going to 6, and I thought if we could change our programs to being 6 weeks long, to get to that short term attention span audience, then create a longevity program, so every 6 weeks you have a break and then you go into the next 6-week program. Then, we’ve got people in longevity training. There’s all these different things. We’re working on the new pillars, basically, of the phases, but it’s functional training-
Steph: [13:35] Nutrition, longevity…
Jay: [13:43] We had them all written down.
Steph: [13:46] We’re changing them up right now.
Joe: [13:50] Phase SiX is ever-evolving is what it is. It’s so… what I’ve picked up is – we can make things really complicated – like we live in this world where we can make things really complicated and we have to use all these systems. When I look at what you guys are doing, it’s like getting back to what we are as human beings and how the body’s supposed to move, and how we’re supposed to eat; like simplifying it, dumbing it down, and using our bodies in the way that they’re supposed to. I think that it’s like… you talk about it as unconventional, but it’s really, isn’t this what human beings were meant to do? We weren’t meant to stand and do a Smith machine bench press just in one degree of freedom. That seems wrong. But it’s just interesting to me; like, we haven’t questioned it. And it’s really cool to see what you guys are doing. Just watching the videos it’s like, wow, I didn’t know my body could move that way but I know it’s supposed to be able to.
Steph: [15:01] I think also, we try to make it user friendly. We don’t want to come across as too complicated with our stuff. We really break it down and keep it classic bodyweight movements with classic elements of strength training, which is using different tools and just making it more fun. So, we don’t go too flashy, which is quite a good-
Jay: [15:22] Yeah. I mean, it’s always good to show the speed side of things every now and again to show you how explosive you can be. Kind of like flows, for example – we tried to slow down as much as possible because it’s important to become comfortable in uncomfortable positions as well. It wasn’t too long ago that I couldn’t move like this at all. All it takes is dedication and the trust in your own process. It’s funny, when people see our stuff and they hadn’t seen it before, because a lot of our stuff is taken from stuff that’s been around for hundreds, even thousands, of years. Nothing’s really is original. We’ve just always brought back the attention of the original [inaudible]. That’s why we include things that are inspired by things like martial arts, like jujitsu, that maybe the mainstream really haven’t been introduced to yet because they might not necessarily be interested in martial arts, but it’s so important regardless if you are or aren’t. There’s major benefits in it, every type of practice.
Steph: [16:33] We like to combine all the elements and create our own; so like the best of everything basically. The best way to train!
Joe: [16:40] I mean, I think the word that really sticks out to me is the flow. There’s a flow to all of it and although some of the movements – I was watching one of your movements, Jay, with the steel mace – and you’re planting it and rolling over; like if you do that wrong, I think you could probably hurt yourself. But the way in which you do it, there’s a really nice FLOW to it that it almost looks like, wow, if I could do that I, one, give my back almost like a massage/relief, but you’re also moving in a way that is very grounded in a jujitsu move, is what it looked like. It’s very – it’s multi-faceted is what I really see, which is really cool because it looks like a combination of a lot of things.
Jay: [17:32] That’s actually came to me from – that movement was actually inspired by a guy called Cameron Shane, who is the creator of Budokon; one of our main sources of inspiration for movement ever. We had the opportunity to train with him at one of his workshops. And after the workshop, it was called Mobility for Movers, and all we did was bodyweight and movement. The amount of knowledge that we gained within that 4 hours is just invaluable. Even certain hand placements, where my foot wasn’t going before.
Steph: [18:04] Where your toe would be.
Jay: [18:06] Yeah. It literally accelerated me maybe 6 months into my journey just by spending 4 hours with Cameron. After the workshop, I literally went up to him and said, “You have made me question if I’m training the right way.”
Joe: [18:18] Wow. Wow.
Steph: [18:24] Keep doing what you’re doing.
Jay: [18:25] He’s been unique, doing everything right, because he’s been seeing our stuff. You keep on doing what you’re doing. Now what you can do what I taught you today and you add a kettlebell to it or you add a steel mace to it. He taught me that movement without a steel mace. And I was like, alright, if I was practicing jujitsu and I wanted to increase my scope and I didn’t have a person with me, let’s use a offset weight. It worked out a lot better than I thought it would.
Joe: [18:56] Surprised yourself! I love when we surprise ourselves.
Jay: [19:03] I always give credit to Cameron for that style of flow. He helped us out greatly.
Joe: [19:12] So, do either – so you guys met in a gym. Was it traditional bodybuilding gym? Do you have backgrounds in bodybuilding?
Jay: [19:21] No.
Steph: [19:22] Oh. Kind of.
Joe: [19:23] Or just strength training?
Steph: [19:24] This gym was more like a leisure center, because over here, they’re pretty lame. They’re big names and they’ve got all the [inaudible] and machines.
Jay: [19:32] It’s a big franchise gym here. It’s probably one of the biggest franchises here.
Steph: [19:38] It’s terrible.
Jay: [19:41] I started off just learning the basics like lat pulldowns for days, bench press for days.
Steph: [19:47] The funny thing was I used to do this cardio, like all the time cardio, [inaudible] maybe with my mom; but one of the reasons why we kind of started a gym together was so he could teach me these classic lat pulldowns and all that kind of weight training. So, looking back at the videos now is really pretty funny.
Jay: [20:04] Yeah, we still have all the videos, but we’re not sure when we’re going to release them, or if ever.
Joe: [20:09] If ever! Those are for the vault.
Jay: [20:12] Yeah. I think it’s good for people to learn that kind of training first to learn exactly how their body moves. Not to use it directly – some people just aren’t going to connect with that style of training. It was a thing for me where I was getting to where I could bench press 100 kilos, but then I would try to do a push-up and I could probably manage four.
Steph: [20:37] You can lift me.
Jay: [20:39] Yes. And I kept on getting injured and stuff like that. It just wasn’t really working for me, but that all comes down to knowledge, and the only way you’re ever going to learn is by furthering your education; because no one’s ever going to know more about yourself than you.
Joe: [20:52] Yeah. It’s like you can connect with, for example, the lat pulldown or a bicep curl or a bench press – you can connect with that muscle and feel it so you get the mind-muscle connection – and now, how do you let that play out in every other movement that you’re doing. Like take a conscious approach to every piece of movement. Let’s talk about the unconventional mindset and where this is all built from, because it’s important, and it’s one of the big things that made us really connect. Let’s dive into this because I’m unconventional in the way that I approach everything.
Jay: [21:30] It’s… well, I mean, the unconventional mindset I think is sort of a personality as well as a sort of nonconformist personality, which is something that I’ve always had personally. I’m very into the punk rock, old school rock-n-roll sort of thing. I never wanted to follow the mainstream and I think that’s where a lot of it has come from as well. There’s always something different out there and you don’t necessarily have to follow the straight path. It curves and bends and all that kind of stuff.
Steph: [22:07] It also bored us, that type of training. We found it really boring, so we weren’t really satisfied.
Jay: [22:13] When I did my personal training certificate, you know, we were taught just the basic stuff. You either go forward, backwards, or side to side, there’s nothing in-between. The biggest benefit of that training, of course, was there was a kettlebell certification within it; so that’s when it introduced me to the kettlebell for the first time. I’ve told people like John Wharfen or Shane Hines, who are the guys at Onnit, the guys who created their education system, that this certification that I took took an hour and learned to swing clean and snatch in a hour. Anyone who’s ever touched a kettlebell know-
Joe: [22:49] That sounds dangerous.
Jay: [22:50] It’s outrageous.
Steph: [22:51] Someone blew out their back.
Jay: [22:53] Yeah, someone blew out their back within the first couple of swings. So, the best thing for me was I understood how complex this was and it was a type of training that nonconformist in a way that I didn’t have to move forward and backwards. It was free flowing. So, I introduced Steph to it the very next day, and then that took us down a rabbit hole of searching Instagram for inspiration and we found all the different people who are known for unconventional training; and then we just practiced every single day. That lead us on to more unconventional training methods, and just increased our knowledge day after day. That’s one of the main reasons why when we started Phase SiX – we started Phase SiX originally just to stay in Australia, open up a facility there, and help educate – but we felt that we needed more education. We also want to thank people who inspired us as well, and also gain more knowledge through different education systems. So, we had enough to buy a house at the time and we decided just to spend it all on a trip around the United States for 3 months. Hired a videographer to go with us to document the entire trip and thank all these people in person, and then help spread awareness of our message also through Phase SiX.
Joe: [24:15] That’s beautiful. That’s really cool. I think that when we get stuck in… we can get stuck in patterns really easily just as human beings; but then the societal norm and the system and getting the job in real estate. I actually – can’t remember if I told you, Jay – but I actually came from an aerospace engineering background. I worked for Lockheed Martin and NASA for a while, and I started getting tattoos when I was there, and I would sit and listen to Joe Rogan in my cubicle, and I’d be like, man, I do not fit in here. And for the longest time, I didn’t give myself the permission to actually own that. I was like okay, this is what I’m supposed to do and I’m going to get stuck in that. Even you guys were like, we were going to buy the house, because that’s the next step of the road and that’s what you’re supposed to do. It can be so frustrating, it can be so trapping, and sometimes it’s really just like giving ourselves the permission to take that risk, take that step and then entrust in ourselves. I think it’s really cool – and you guys are even fighting now to get back to the U.S. is what a lot of the conversation with you guys has been – but what is life like from a fulfillment standpoint when you continue to listen to yourself and trust in yourself and make every decision based off of that intuition?
Jay: [25:48] It’s the best.
Steph: [25:50] Just [inaudible]
Jay: [25:51] Like Gary Vee says all the time, happiness should be your world. Not money or anything like that. Happiness. And if you’re happy earning $45,000 talking about Smurfs or Ninja Turtles or something like that, then you’re winning. And that’s the thing – my winning is waking up everyday with Steph and I get to spend the whole day with her doing what we like to do.
Steph: [26:12] We’re together 24/7.
Jay: [26:14] Yeah, like 24/7, and that’s the life that I wanted for myself and that’s the one I’m living. Everything else is just a bonus.
Steph: [26:25] Traveling and educating people. It’s even better, getting to travel the world…
Jay: [26:30] People don’t realize how quickly things happen once you start to trust yourself and not worry about other people’s opinions, because they’ll always come into it, you know, and all that is is their own insecurities or failings of what’s happened for them before. And people have that within themselves as well. I just have never allowed that to happen also within myself; I never allowed to second guess what I’m about to do because if I’m right, then great, I’m right; if I’m wrong, then it’s just a lesson that I won’t do again.
Joe: [27:00] Yeah.
Steph: [27:02] [inaudible]
Joe: [27:04] Can you guys talk about the situation right now in trying to get back to the U.S. and what this is like? And then let’s talk about this worldwide expedition we’re – you’re going on – but I would love to support you guys on.
Jay: [27:18] [inaudible] So, after we did that 3 month tour, we had to leave the U.S. anyway because we were only allowed to be there 3 months on a ESTA visa. We were so consumed by the positive experience and meeting everyone. We met Adam from Strong Coffee, and we connected with all these great people. All we wanted to do, because it’s finally a place where we felt like we belonged, all we wanted to do is to get back there. We spent December – we left New York in November, end of November – we were in London for December. You gotta remember that we had no plans of ever coming back to the UK as well, so it’s kind of a dark time because we’re back all like, what is going on, this isn’t where we’re meant to be, we have to get back to the United States. So, by January we were back to the United States. We didn’t really have a plan; again, we just sort of winged it the whole time. So, our plan was to – we wanted to host a workshop across the United States to help spread our message. We got all the workshop states in place through Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York-
Steph: [28:30] And sold out too, as well.
Jay: [28:31] And New Jersey. The first two sold out without even any advertisement. We went and saw our immigration lawyer in Texas, who advised us to apply for this visa in London, so basically we had to go back to London in March in order for us to apply for this visa. Because we hosting seminars, she said it won’t be a problem, it’ll be fine. “It’s easy to get.” Those were her exact words. We left America like “YES! We’re coming back!”
Steph: [28:57] We’ll see you in 3 weeks. That’s what I told everyone.
Jay: [29:00] One of the last persons we saw was Adam from Strong Coffee and he’s like, “So, I’ll see you in 6 months?” And we’re like, “No, man. We’ll see you like next month. We’re coming back immediately.”
Steph: [29:09] He’s like, “OK.”
Jay: [29:12] We went back to the UK and applied for this visa, which is the B1 visa. We got to the desk, we waited in there in the immigration offices for like 3 hours. We got to the desk where they decide whether you’ve been accessed or denied, and they’re like, “Yeah, denied. You’re not getting approved, sorry.” And because they’re not lawyers, they can’t tell you why. They can’t advise you on which visa you need to apply for, this kind of stuff. We did some research and we thought we had it figured out, so we tried to apply for the visa again, and we got denied a 2nd time.
Steph: [29:49] And we were so sure that time that we were going. Like, “Yes, this is it!”
Jay: [29:52] “This is it!”
Steph: [29:53] And we left. I think I cried-
Jay: [29:56] Yeah, it was really upsetting. It was dumbfounding. It was like, this isn’t how it’s meant to happen. What are we doing wrong here?
Steph: [30:04] The universe is stopping us, basically; but it’s not right.
Jay: [30:07] We went to an immigration lawyer in London who is very well respected, and she basically just cut the BS and said to us, “Whatever that person told you before is all wrong. You need to apply for a ESTA visa. That is your only way in.” The problem with that situation was we had workshops ready to start in June until the end of October and this process would take 6-9 months.
Steph: [30:35] So, we had to cancel everything.
Jay: [30:37] So, we had to cancel the workshops, which sucked because we were really looking forward to it.
Joe: [30:44] And they were all sold out too?
Jay: [30:46] The first two, which were a few months away, had almost – the one had almost sold out and the second one was getting close to. And the problem with being denied a visa is that you literally – we cannot step foot in the United States until we get our U.S. ESTA visa.
Steph: [31:07] [inaudible]
Jay: [31:08] We’re literally blocked out. Having to come to accept the fact that you’re not allowed to go somewhere where you feel like you belong was a really hard thing to get through.
Steph: [31:19] But so much good has happened since. Once we had accepted that, we were like what can we do to make our time here good? How can we enjoy our time here? And we thought, well, Europe – let’s just take over Europe and start putting it out here where we can go to. That really worked out well because there’s tons of interest. We’ve kind of made it bearable, enjoyable here.
Jay: [31:40] Yeah, the silver lining to all of that, which is always something when you’re thrown an obstacle, is that we were denied an option that we were so sure we were going to get, but the silver lining to that is we were presented with options that we hadn’t even thought of pursuing because we were so determined to get back to the United States. Had that not happened, we wouldn’t be hosting a workshop in London. We certainly wouldn’t be hosting a workshop in Italy. We might not have connected with you the way we did. And we’re going back to Australia to spread the education there. So, one thing we have is time, and one thing we’ve just always learned to accept is patience with the journey.
Steph: [32:24] Hmm… and skipping steps.
Jay: [32:26] We’ve just took everyday as it comes, and we’ve been fortunate enough to be in a position where we can help other parts of the world. We’re also ok to go there as well; like Australia’s pretty hard to get into too, but fortunately, I’m Australian, so we’re good there, and the UK. I’m not sure what’s happened with Brexit, but I don’t pay too much attention to politics. Apparently, it’s not happening or something, I don’t know.
Joe: [32:50] I don’t know either.
Jay: [32:51] But we’re allowed to go to different parts of Europe for now and spread our message there.
Steph: [32:57] It’s the best thing that’s happened to us, really.
Jay: [33:00] And looking at it at retrospect as well of had we been accepted to the U.S., I’m not sure how we would’ve survived, because, again, we didn’t have a plan. That time, we would’ve wanted to stay there for good and we had nowhere to live.
Steph: [33:14] Yeah. I remember going too like, where would we stay? How would we get around? Like, all these questions that we didn’t even think about because we were so set on just getting there. It’s just ridiculous like how you can just single your mind.
Jay: [33:27] Having tunnel vision.
Steph: [33:30] That [inaudible]
Joe: [33:31] Yeah. So, we alluded to it earlier, and the reason that we are connected is basically social media. You two and Phase SiX fitness as a whole have all – three… there’s basically 3 platforms that you guys have built – that have massive communities. That takes a lot of time and effort, and a lot of beautiful things can come from that. There are… there are times where I’ll be straight honest, I get on social media, I get on Instagram, and I hate it. I can’t like – comparing myself to somebody – I’m doing something self-destructive. The piece of that that I had to start reflecting to myself more and more was it’s my choice on who I follow, it’s my choice on how I react to who I do follow, and if I don’t want any of that in my life, I can press the unfollow button; so don’t make it so difficult. There can be a lot of negative around social media. There are definitely people out there that build facades, and that is a disservice to a lot of other people, especially young children who are coming to social media and looking up to people and saying, “Hey, I want to be an influencer,” or whatever. Ok, like, what does that really mean? What are you actually comparing yourself to and do you understand what their true life is really like? Those are important questions for everybody to ask. And a lot of it is on ourselves to understand what content we are absorbing and how we react to that. There’s a flipside to it. The positive, the way that we can connect with people on a level that has never been possible before instantaneously because of social media, is so beautiful. And the power of living in integrity, like you guys do, and owning what you do through Phase SiX, it comes out so cleanly and so clearly, and that is how you’ve been able to build a community – because people see that. You’re not – there’s no fakeness there. What you see is what you get. I look at – your platforms are heavily educational – but even through that, I get on the phone with you guys, I get on this call with you guys and it’s like I’m talking to the same people that I see via social media. I think that that’s really important. So, I’m sure – have you guys seen both sides of that, and how powerful has social media been for you in this entire journey?
Jay: [36:21] The one thing I’ve always been mindful of is I never would’ve wanted someone to say to me, “Oh, you’re not what you seem like on social media,” because people will put up profile pictures of their best shot they ever took of themselves. I don’t ever want to seem fake. We make sure to post sometimes where we’re not feeling too good; you know, your hair’s a mess or you’ve just woken up, because that’s exactly how life is. If you care about people’s opinion’s too much then you’re kind of insecure with yourself. We’ve always wanted to come off as genuine and authentic, and the biggest goal of ours is just to bring people value and not ask for anything in return. Once that starts to happen, it snowballs and people recognize that and you connect with the good people within that platform.
Steph: [37:21] If that’s what you’re attracting.
Jay: [37:23] It’s the law of attraction. It’s what you put out is what you’re going to get, and-
Steph: [37:28] I mean, we hardly get – we don’t really get any negative comments. We get the one troll saying something ridiculously stupid, but then we’re like, scroll on. We don’t really get any negativity because we don’t put anything out, and I believe it’s because of that. It’s all positive.
Jay: [37:43] Yeah. It’s just making sure that you’re creating value and it’s always coming from the right place.
Steph: [37:50] No arrogance.
Jay: [37:51] We’re not going it for likes or follows or anything like that; just authentic posts that can help people, genuinely help people.
Steph: [37:59] Not to make them feel like less than us. Some people in this fitness industry can put stuff out and be like look at how much I can do, or look at how fast I can do this, when people obviously can’t do that. And they’ll just be comparing themselves, like what you were saying. We don’t want that to happen. We want to make people feel like they can try it, break it down, and get to where we are. I think that’s super important.
Jay: [38:21] And it’s possible because I started this very late. I was quite athletic in school. I chose the partying life instead at an earlier age, and it wasn’t until I was… I didn’t start training until I was 26. I couldn’t even, at 26 years old, I couldn’t even [inaudible] down to pick up a pair, a set of keys on the floor. It’s a message of not being – it’s never too late to start – and that if you follow the right accounts and put good intentions out there, you can achieve anything, and connect with like-minded individuals. On both sides of the coin, if you’re following those accounts, like you said, that produce negative results, that’s exactly what you’re going to get. I find social media to be just another tool, the same way we use it as a kettlebell or the steel mace; these both can cause negative results for us if we use them incorrectly, and that’s the same with social media too.
Steph: [39:27] Exactly. There’s been quite a few accounts that I personally have had to do the unfollow, and even block, to be honest, because I just don’t want to see certain things on my page anymore. I just got to that stage – I used to be like, but you can’t do that, it’s rude, or be nice and follow everyone. It’s not necessary.
Joe: [39:46] No! It’s all on us. It’s all on us to make that decision, and I think sometimes – I’ll speak for myself – but I’ve made it too complicated. And sometimes it just takes a little bit of reflection for me, is like, am I projecting things on other people? Am I – getting super curious about the way we think and act certain ways is really important. It’s just a really important way of just understanding what it’s like to live very consciously and be able to own what you deserve for yourself and want for yourself.
Jay: [40:28] Absolutely. Everyone is [inaudible]. If something’s causing a negative effect on my life, regardless of what it is – if it’s something I see on social media – I eliminate it completely. Immediately. Because my happiness is worth more than that negative feeling.
Steph: [40:45] We’ve got too much at stake to let something negative come in the way.
Jay: [40:49] You can only move forward being completely happy with it.
Joe: [40:53] Yeah. I was telling somebody this the other day and I was curious… I know, I see you guys have done a lot of work at Onnit and with Onnit. When I first started Cured, there definitely was competition out there, but people asked me who’s the competition, and I was like, I don’t know. Don’t know. It doesn’t exist. And it definitely existed but there was so much tunnel vision that all I cared about was my mission and what I was doing, and as soon as I let go of that, I would get these feelings of angst and anxiety, and like, oh my gosh, now I’m comparing myself. But when you’re just focused on what you’re doing and you live in the mindset of there’s – ok, maybe there is competition, but I’m not going to pay attention to it – the way that we can thrive is just way more abundant; then you’ll find those other people that are doing the same thing and say hey, if we align, then let’s do it together, but let’s not have this competition fight thing that’s just really negative.
Jay: [41:59] That’s one of our biggest messages and why we put within our stamp of our logo is “Unite for the Revolution,” is because we wanted to unite with as many people as possible who share the same message. Because there’s so many people, like-minded individuals out there, and if we all team up together, we can double the numbers and achieve more as one, stronger together. So, that’s what we always strive to accomplish, is to unite as many people as possible.
Steph: [42:28] Although not many people seem to understand that point; they always – we’ve got quite a lot of people that are really [inaudible] by that – like, “They’re going to steal our ideas,” or something.
Jay: [42:39] Yeah, you’ll see that kind.
Joe: [42:41] Yeah!
Jay: [42:42] You always – you know, someone – again, that’s their own insecurities and has nothing ever to do with you. If people do come up with the type of situation, all we need to know is if that person is focusing all their attention on you, then they’re not moving forward themselves. And that goes with yourself; if pay attention to what other people are thinking, you can’t move forward.
Joe: [43:05] That’s true. So, this tour. We’ve got the UK coming up. I’m going to be there for that; super stoked for that. Then Milan, and then where else are you guys going? You said you’re going to Australia, and how do people find out more about these workshops? What are they actually going to include in them?
Jay: [43:27] Like you said, we’ve got the ones on September 14th. We sold out London, but after we sold out and announced that we were sold out, we received so many messages from people saying they’d really like to go, we increased the capacity for another 10 people.
Steph: [43:46] There’s 2 tickets left.
Jay: [43:47] There’s only 2 tickets left to London now. Milan’s the same. Someone else is handling the registration side of things in Milan. There we’re going to have an interpreter, translator, on the day as well. So, it’s going to be super cool.
Steph: [44:04] Then, Australia we are yet to come up with dates there.
Jay: [44:09] We’re still in talks with the facilities and with Australia, but it’ll be from – our tour there will be from November until around the end of February. Then, we’ll be looking to come back and do a few days in Europe before we really start pushing to get back to the United States. We hope to workshop tours across the United States by Q3 2020. Hopefully by September onwards we can travel around the United States doing what we were meant to do the first time.
Steph: [44:38] It’s all on our website at the moment.
Jay: [44:40] Yeah. It’s www.phase6fitness.com. You’ll be able to find all the information about the workshops there. It’s a 5 hour workshop and we focus on mobility, primal movement, the introduction and understanding of unconventional training and the positive effects it has on our bodies. We’re sticking to kettlebells for these first few workshops. We’d love to include mace and that kind of stuff, but the UK isn’t very unconventional yet. It’s getting there, but the equipment-
Steph: [45:13] Needs to catch up.
Jay: [45:14] Needs to catch up, so we’re just sticking to kettlebells for now.
Steph: [45:18] Next year.
Jay: [45:19] Hopefully we’ll be able to incorporate more unconventional tools next year. And also focusing on longevity training rather than these short-term results.
Steph: [45:28] We’ll have [inaudible] at the end, talking about all the benefits of recovery and how important it is.
Jay: [45:34] And they’ll also include complexes and flows into your workout as well whilst also building that strong foundation to just move better through life. Once you start training not just to look good, but to feel good for the rest of your life, and things become so much easier, especially with the back and other things. If you’re like, oh, I don’t have to transform my body in 6 weeks, I can transform my body in 6 years and be healthy all the time.
Steph: [46:05] And train for longer.
Jay: [46:07] It’s what people are kind of getting confused with functional training, which is why we kind of steer clear of that word now, is because that’s been taken up and marketed in such a way where people are using it not correctly. So, it’s not becoming functional at all, it’s actually injury [inaudible]
Joe: [46:22] Yeah. I, honestly, I have some people that are really amazing at CrossFit and I have a massive respect for it, but I think the big thing that I have trouble with is walking into a gym for the first time and seeing somebody do snatches on the very first day, and I’m like, oh my god, that’s really scary and really dangerous. I wanted to touch for one second on the nutritional optimization and what you’re doing, Steph, as a certified nutritionist, because it’s so important. It can become very complicated because we live in this world of what’s the next diet fad, and that’s also a problem. What does that look like in combination with everything else you’re doing?
Steph: [47:05] Well, we – we don’t preach – but I always say that nutrition – everyone’s different, right? So, no one’s – I can’t give out the same information to all these different people. That’s why we put it alongside our workout programs that we also personalize. So, I do a food diary with them and get them some healthy swaps and make sure it’s personalized. That’s the biggest thing, the most important thing – personalized nutrition. I hate diet fads. I’ve never been on them, and I just think it’s all about getting – just optimizing your nutritional status, really. Just making sure you’re getting enough of everything.
Jay: [47:51] Steph makes sure we focus on whole foods that are nutrient dense.
Steph: [47:55] Yeah. No processed things.
Jay: [47:58] We don’t really count – no processed stuff, no sugars. We don’t count calories, all that kind of stuff. A lot of people get obsessed with that kind of thing as well, and that causes negative effect on your mindset as well.
Joe: [48:13] It’s causing a lot of eating disorders, to be honest. It’s crazy. So, coming from the bodybuilding world, I didn’t – when I was competing, I just followed a meal plan that my coach gave me. Then, when I was transitioning out of bodybuilding, I was like, I’ll just count macros… and it made things more complicated in my head, and I started to get more anxious. And I’m seeing – you see it all over social media and people, more and more people are talking about it. My fiancé being one of them is… man, if we’re looking at every single little calorie, like every macronutrient, like c’mon. What are we doing here? We’re making things a lot more complicated, and if this isn’t healthy, if we’re driving ourself crazy up in our head, it doesn’t matter what food we’re putting in our mouth; it’s actually going to be a massive disaster.
Steph: [49:05] You used to be like me. So, when I just finished the course, I was so excited. I had all this new information and I just wanted to tell everyone. Like even if they didn’t want to listen, I was like, “I KNOW THIS. And you need to do it too!” And I did that, I went a bit crazy. No one really wanted to hear it yet, so I just kind of went into myself and I was on this really strict high-fat, really low carb. That was probably the biggest thing that I did, and I did it for way too long. Then, I slowly realized that it was a bit ridiculous and that a little bit of everything is way better and I need to support my body with what I’m doing, especially with training. I think it was when I started training more functionally, I realized I needed a bit more carbohydrate and stuff and I shouldn’t be strict. It was just a major learning curve, like it’s been a long process getting it right for myself even.
Jay: [50:03] Yeah, the problem being in this type of industry that we’re in, like health and fitness, is that there’s so much different information out there and people literally want a simple answer so they can look like that person–
Steph: [50:17] But you can’t give it.
Jay: [50:18] Or they can train like that person. It’s so much more complicated than you realize, which is why I would always prefer someone to invest in themselves through certifications and education, ‘cause the only way you’re ever going to know exactly what you need is by educating yourself on exactly what you need as a person because no one’s going to know. We aren’t going to know exactly what you need regardless of how much knowledge that we have.
Steph: [50:47] I think the easiest thing to say to people is when you’re about to eat something or when you’re looking at something to buy, be like, what is this going to do for my body? Is this giving myself nutrients or is this stripping them away? Just the simple question – is this nutritionally dense? If not, switch it for something else. Just little questions like that, just being aware, reading labels is so important.
Jay: [51:11] People have a big thing about how expensive eating healthy is, but it’s actually not. If you break down your costs and say you don’t drink alcohol or anything like that, it’s not expensive at all. It’s almost identical. We don’t find it a bit expensive. You can find whole foods that are nutrient dense, and it costs the same as buying that processed crap.
Joe: [51:35] Yeah. You go out to eat and you order a couple of drinks, your bill goes up by like 50%, and I don’t think people are very conscious of it. It’s like, there’s the consciousness around it, but imagine just completely eliminating that. I… alcohol actually caused a lot of destruction in my life and it’s something that I’m super frustrated – I get frustrated about the way that it’s so normalized, and then things that are extremely important, like just the CBD world that I live in, and things that are going to continue to come out like that. But why is that viewed differently when there’s this massive elephant in the room that’s causing so much destruction and it’s completely legal.
Steph: [52:20] We’re constantly driving past clubs and we’re just always so confused at like the amount of people that are in there every day, Monday – Sunday.
Jay: [52:31] From 11 – like you’ll see them from 11AM.
Steph: [52:32] [inaudible]
Joe: [52:36] They’re numbing!
Jay: [52:37] There’s a huge drinking culture here.
Steph: [52:39] Major.
Jay: [52:40] Which is unfortunate. We don’t drink alcohol. It’s not necessarily because we’re not – we don’t drink. I literally can’t put that stuff in my body now that I know exactly what it does to my body when you put it in there. All this kind of stuff just comes down to knowledge.
Steph: [52:59] And also we don’t feel we need it. We can go out and go without alcohol.
Jay: [53:06] Or invest in a kombucha.
Steph: [53:09] Yeah!
Steph: [53:14] It’s our weekend, kombucha and [inaudible]
Jay: [53:16] It’s almost unfortunate, and like you said, there’s all these things that have a negative reputation, like CBD down to people being not educated on this type of category of medication, or whatever you want to call it, or supplement. Then you’ve got things like cigarettes and alcohol, which are causing massive, massive problems within health.
Steph: [53:42] And vape.
Jay: [53:43] And vape, which is – you know, everyone’s like just vape instead. I guarantee in 10 years’ time, something’s going to come out about vape.
Steph: [53:49] Like cancer.
Joe: [53:50] Yeah, it already is. It already is. It’s not good.
Jay: [53:55] It’s kind of-
Steph: [53:58] I think they just hop on the bandwagon. Something new comes in, everyone’s like oh, what is that, or it must be dangerous, it hasn’t been around for so long. You know what I mean? [inaudible] that mentality.
Jay: [54:09] It’s not good. And like you said, the only way we’re going to change that is by helping spread the message of the benefits of products like CBD, hence [inaudible]
Joe: [54:20] Yeah. We’re uniting for the revolution, you guys! I’m super stoked about this. I want to wrap things up, but you talked about your website. How can people find out more about your through social media? Just list those out and then what’s the best way to continue to follow along with the workshops and everything else that you guys are doing?
Steph: [54:44] So Phase SiX’s Instagram is Phase and then the number 6 (@Phase6). Jay’s is-
Jay: [54:50] Mine is @jay.rose.phase6 with a number 6 at the end.
Steph: [54:54] Then, super easy, mine is @steph.rose.phase6.
Jay: [54:58] They usually all pop up together somewhere.
Joe: [55:01] They do. Follow one, you gotta follow all 3. And if you don’t, then you got a problem.
Jay: [55:10] We’re on Facebook. There’s a Facebook page.
Steph: [55:12] YouTube.
Jay: [55:13] We got a YouTube channel as well -/PhaseSix – but that’s spelt all as letters. And we just recently come on to TikTok too.
Steph: [55:22] Great.
Joe: [55:25] I’m interested in that!
Jay: [55:26] I don’t know how that’s going to work out. It’s all very confusing, but everything’s always confusing when you first start it. I still remember trying to start Myspace and not having a clue.
Steph: [55:35] Or Facebook is [inaudible] to me, like I don’t understand it.
Jay: [55:39] Yeah. So, we’re on TikTok too.
Joe: [55:42] Cool! I just found out about it last week, so I’m interested in checking it out.
Jay: [55:48] We’re on Twitter as well.
Steph: [55:50] And, obviously, the website – phase6fitness.com – and that has everything that’s upcoming on – it’s constantly updated.
Jay: [55:59] All our upcoming workshops, any information about where you can find and train with us will be on there. We’ll be making sure that we keep updates of when we’re coming back to the United States because our biggest audience is actually in the United States. We’re excited to get back there and see everyone again. Legally. It’s all part of the cool story, I guess.
Joe: [56:23] Yeah, it absolutely is. Thank you guys for what you’re doing. I really appreciate it and I love what you’re doing, and I’m super stoked to be connected with you guys and supporting you guys, and watching where this goes, and look forward to seeing you guys here in two weeks.
Jay: [56:41] See you soon!