4/23/19 | Podcast

CC 012: Calm the Body, Calm the Mind – Yoga Nidra with Ed Shapiro

Join us for our next event! The first of five upcoming Cured Community Wellness events May 18 here in Denver, CO. Details available on our Instagram or visit CuredNutrition.com

Today’s guest is a seasoned-veteran in the yoga and wellness worlds, none other than Ed Shapiro. Ed has been educating and empowering others through the practices of mindfulness, meditation, yoga, and a collection of writings with his wife that spans decades. In this episode, he discusses how we can begin to calm both our bodies and minds through the practice of yoga nidra.

Follow Ed @eddebshapiro

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Full Transcript

Joe: [00:00] Ed, thanks for doing this for us.

Ed: [00:01] Just so you know, I’ve had my own radio show for 2 years.

Joe: [00:05] For 2 years?

Ed: [00:06] Yeah.

Joe: [00:06] What’s the name of the radio show?

Ed: [00:07] It was called Out of Your Mind… Going Out of Your Mind and I’ve had Jane Fonda. I’ve had every movie star. I mean, I wrote the book.

Joe: [00:16] You did the write the book!

Ed: [00:17] I feel very, very comfortable.

Joe: [00:19] In addition to these books.

Ed: [00:21] Well, we’ve written 20 books altogether.

Joe: [00:23] Twenty books! Now are they all based on mindfulness and meditation or is there a plethora of books?

Ed: [00:31] Well, we wrote one book called The Way Ahead in 1990s with Paul McCartney, Richard Gere, Yoko Ono, which was very funny because the book with Yoko and Paul McCartney, the same week it came out, they said Yoko broke up the Beatles.

Joe: [00:51] Wow.

Ed: [00:52] And she was in our book, and he was in our book. I even said to Paul’s right-hand man Jeff Baker, “Jeff, when is he going to start talking to Yoko?” and he said, “when she gives up eating meat,” because he wrote a piece for a book called If It has a Face Don’t Eat It.

Joe: [01:12] Yeah?

Ed: [01:15] The books are very similar. You would think but… I think it’s mostly about… you might even say getting our lives together. We live so much on the outside world. We live so much in stress that we can see ourselves come to bleed through a day.

Joe: [01:41] I think it’s the biggest problem in the world right now, and it’s getting worse and worse, especially through social media and our interconnectedness, and taking that time and just what you said before the podcast of just stopping for one second.

Ed: [01:56] Imagine that. A whole world, one second. Just stop. Breathe. Enjoy your life, it’s such a beautiful thing. Why is this life happening if it isn’t beautiful? If it wasn’t beautiful, then I wouldn’t want a creator who wanted to create all this and turns out a mess. It’s beautiful.

Joe: [02:23] What sparked this journey? I’m sitting here at your kitchen table. I’m looking at a picture of you with the Dalai Lama and another picture of you from when you were 26 in India without your shoes on. Where’d this whole journey begin?

Ed: [02:38] Well, you should laugh. I was hanging out at Studio 54 with all the movie stars and everything because I’m a professional dancer. Then I dropped acid. Like 1965 before it was illegal. I was with somebody and was knocking the hash up, and this guy says, “you should have this” and it was a sugar cube. The next thing I know, I’m at the Statue of Liberty. We went on this sugar cube, and when I got there, the whole entire place turned to love. It was like everything was love. Then I got on the ferry – it’s 1965 – and all of a sudden, the whole sky, it’s like everything’s breathing. And the Statue of Liberty is swinging her wand in a circle. Everything’s going wow. It was so incredible because I was never the type that would wind up in India, but when all this happened and the love and I experience this, I wanted to know more about it. And I was fortunate to meet Swami Satchidananda the Woodstock guru. He opened Woodstock. I met him, and Timothy Leary and Ram Dass, Richard Alpert and he just said if a sugar cube of LSD could make you a saint, then you should be able to have a sugar cube that will make you a lawyer, a doctor, an architect, because it’s much harder to be a saint.

Experience Nirvana

Joe: [04:17] Wow. That’s powerful. That’s true though.

Ed: [04:20] Yeah! I asked my teacher, can you experience nirvana on acid? He said, “Sure. The only thing is you won’t know how you got there.”

Joe: [04:31] I think that’s a specialty of it, right?

Ed: [04:36] The thing is to do it naturally. It gives us a thing, we’re very externalized in the West and what’s necessary is, as I shared with you, is stopping. We can do that by breathing. Learning how our breath isn’t just something that keeps us alive – in and out – but the greatest gift every human being has in the world is right below their nose. The breath.

Joe: [05:02] We forget to do it all the time.

Ed: [05:05] The thing is when you breathe into your chest, that’s fear. It’s sort of paranoia. The other day I was just checking it out and all of a sudden, a tiny, tiny bit of paranoia jumped in my head. The next thing I know, I was paranoid. I’m saying at least I had the mindfulness, which is really the gift, because whatever happens, it’s good to have the awareness, the presence to be with that’s happening. To be with what is. That way, it’s sort of like, things can only harm you if you let them.

Joe: [05:42] Right.

Ed: [05:44] It’s beneath our nose, so learn it’s in the chest area, that’s where the stress, the fear… bring the breath down to the abdomen. Your friend – not your husband, wife, or children – but your breath is your best friend.

Joe: [05:59] I think something that stood out to me before we even started podcasting is you were talking about suffering, and I think the big thing is that pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. I think that suffering is what a lot of people get trapped in and as it goes, the course of life, we’re going to experience pain, and it’s part of the journey. But that suffering aspect is a completely different story.

Ed: [06:31] You see, there’s only one culprit in everybody’s world. Only one. It’s called ego. Anything you put the ego grabs. It’s the nature of the mind. So many of these yogis, so many of these people saying calm your mind. Be still. Sure, there’s an inner stillness. But you could never – and you should never – calm the mind because it means “oh, I love that wonderful day, it’s very beautiful.” It’s all okay, good and bad comes because it’s almost separate. I noticed quite a few months ago that there were two people having an argument in my head and was like wow. The mind. Look all this. The mindfulness, be aware. Be in the world but not of it. Don’t be contaminated by everything. Don’t grasp and hold on to. Just become mindful. The mind is a perfect servant but a terrible master. It’s your mind. You want to do something, if it’s good for you, fine. If not, notice that thoughts are like birds in the sky – let them fly away. It’s your trip. The mind, the ego, is relentless. It doesn’t see that no, it has nothing to do with you. It’s constant. Sure, you play with it, but it’s always there to trip you up because it’ll be redundant. If you wake up, if you see the play of the mind, if you see the ego, if you see life, just see it. It came to play with you.

Joe: [08:28] A book that I read not too long ago called The Untethered Soul talks about we are the…

Ed: [08:36] Who’s that by?

Joe: [08:37] I can’t remember.

Ed: [08:38] Oh, I’ve read that book.

Joe: [08:41] You’ve definitely read that book!

Ed: [08:44] I don’t remember. He’s the best writer that christened there’s only one truth, and that’s emptiness. The whole beauty of life is that it’s radiant. Emptiness, the freedom. We’re pure. We’re beautiful.

Joe: [08:58] The big piece of that book was that we are the observer of our thoughts, and we are the observer of those two people talking in your head. Then we can identify as that and then that’s when it becomes the slippery slope. But if we can recognize that thoughts are just that – they’re thoughts – and we all have them. We all have the bad thoughts. We all have the good thoughts. But we’re aren’t those.

Ed: [09:23] Invite it in for a cup of tea. Hi fear, I remember you. What kind of tea do you want? I think you should have calming tea.

Joe: [09:33] I agree! What’s the tea of the day? Can we dive into your first book? I know you’re releasing another book, but Yoga Nidra. How do you say it?

Ed: [09:45] Yoga Nidra.

Joe: [09:47] Yoga Nidra. I had been doing a lot of studying of yoga over the last year, since we started our business and how we’re really trying to bring a mindful message with our business. Yoga has been a massive part of that for all of us, even practicing it in our office. Explain this type of yoga to everybody because I think people get confused with this and like what Shavasana is and they think it’s one and the same, but it’s not.

Ed: [10:24] Far from it. Shavasana is a physical pose and a pose of physical relaxation. Yoga Nidra means this sleepless sleep, where you’re aware of what’s going on inside of you, but you pay no attention externally. You see, in yoga, there’s asanas, there’s pranayama. Asanas is stretching out, a lot of people stretch out but there’s only one important in hatha yoga: a supple spine. When the spine is supple back and forth, the rest of the body can flow and can move. So that’s the essential thing of hatha yoga. Then there’s also breathing that goes with it. Those are two externals that create a sense of awareness, health of body, creating a good sense of self, but it’s still superficial, it’s the external. In yoga nidra there’s conscious, being in the world, then there’s subconscious. Subconscious feeds the conscious. Someone smoking a cigarette and they’re puffing away, and they’re going, “I’m stopping smoking,” and their mind’s saying no you’re not. No you’re not. Because the subconscious is habituated. The unconscious is where everything is. Everything is recorded, and especially the heavy moments, the traumas, like you might’ve had a fall or somehow, whatever happens… we’re human beings, we all know we go through a lot of things. Whatever happens is registered there. The point of yoga nidra is that it goes from the external, then yoga nidra is called pratyahara. Pratyahara is withdrawal of your mind from the external. It starts going within where you’re starting to be conscious within and you’re not paying attention externally. Through becoming aware of your breath, visualization, the most important thing in yoga nidra is the sankalpa. Sankalpa is a personal, what’s important in your life. What is meaningful to you. It’s a positive affirmation about your life. Simple sentence, few punctuations. Maybe, may I be at peace and may I help others. Whatever it be. You say that at the beginning and at the end, and you plant that in the deepest part where it’s you’re doing it – that’s why it’s not hypnosis. When I teach a class, the individual does their own positive affirmation. Therefore, you create. What you’re doing is you’re moving it away so when it’s deep inside yourself, your inclination is to do good because you clear away… sometimes someone says “I had a hard life, a difficult life,” and so he’s a criminal, whatever. Hopefully people will learn yoga nidra and yoga. This essentially is a brief understanding that we go from yoga nidra and relax, then we go into a more one-pointed mindful awareness to go into pure awareness, which is relaxing through concentration dharana, dhyana meditation, as told in Patanjali, the 8 fold path, nirvana was somebody, which actually is looking for what we are originally inside. Just clearing the dust off the mirror.

Joe: [14:35] It’s amazing because our world is so complicated and we’re so caught up in the external. The external validations, the whatever it may be that is outside of us that is going to make us feel a certain way. We’ve been overcomplicating it for so long and now people are actually starting to wake up and realize that. There’s been a shift. There was a large movement back in, you’re talking the 60s and 70s, and then the psychedelics went away because that was the counterculture and people weren’t really understanding it for what it is.

Ed: [15:11] Not many of them knew what it was.

Joe: [15:14] Yeah, and I think that there’s a new shift into consciousness these days and it’s exciting to watch. It’s just so important because we’re stuck on our phones all the time. The world, the news, everything’s coming in and it’s all about the external. That can make things very complicated, whereas what you’re teaching is, in essence, very simple.

Ed: [15:40] That’s called Sunsara and Nirvana. It’s almost a Buddhist way of viewing it. The world is a phenomenal world. Nirvana, which is the universe… the way I think human beings, for whatever reason, are getting ripped off because everyone’s beautiful. The whole thing is. Eyelashes, toenails. I mean, how good, what are we? How can it be bad? We get caught up in the “me-me’s” of it all. Me me. I call it the me-me’s. We have to just let go, stop grasping to reality, things will unfold, and through yoga to practicing a sense of connection to ourselves and coming back in. It’s very normal in Tibet and Indian countries. They even say namaste in India which is I bow to the truth in you, and the other person bows to the truth in them. It’s just respecting the human condition.

Joe: [16:45] ‘Cause we’re all the same. We’re all human.

Ed: [16:47] It’s all the same. It’s sort of what Ramana Maharshi – he’s one of the great saints of India – and someone says to Ramana, “Ramana! What about others?” and he says, “there is no other.” There’s only this, and we’re in it. The individualness is because why not have fun? I was with this nun in Northern England… she was a regular nun and then a Buddhist nun and I said, “Avis, when we die we can go to Heaven,” and she said, “yeah, we’ll look at each other and say ‘what was that all about?’” So, let’s make it worthwhile. Let’s know whatever happens, it’s happening. Be with what is and know there’s nothing more beautiful and more important than your breath.

Joe: [17:40] Right, right. You say be with what is. How about teachings of attachment versus detachment. Like the pendulum of life and we’re going to have high highs and really low lows.

Ed: [17:58] There’s only one teacher on the whole planet. There’s only one teacher, Lord Teflon. Nothing sticks to Teflon. That’s how we live in the world.

Joe: [18:10] Wow.

Ed: [18:11] Just be with it and enjoy it. I mean, you could taste it, you could enjoy it, but you don’t have to strangle it. You don’t have to marry every piece of candy – although I do; I love candy.

Joe: [18:25] But it’s the pleasure button. We get to press that button. We get to press all the buttons, right?

Ed: [18:28] Right, but the thing that’s important is be more gentle and kind to yourself. That’s the Dalai Lama says. His religion is kindness. Let’s just all be a little nicer in the world, a little kinder. You know, get cured. I mean, who doesn’t want to be cured?

Joe: [18:54] That’s the whole thing. People look at our brand and what we do, and Cured is a very bold statement. It’s all about what that means as a message rather than saying we’re going to take a product and be cured. What’s the actual message? We are wellness rooted in nature.

Ed: [19:17] The truth of the matter is it’s nice what you’re saying but we’re already cured. What your product is doing is reminding people.

Joe: [19:26] Wow, yeah.

Ed: [19:28] You can’t be uncured and cured. You either are free or you’re not. You can’t be happy and unhappy. All the beautiful things we’re looking in the world is inside of us. We’re constantly looking out and that’s the goof. You see, whoever created this world is really goofing on us… call it God, whatever works for each individual. Look at the mango. The mango is the most delicious, beautiful fruit, and the pit is bigger than the fruit. Isn’t that funny? God took Adam to the tree and he said, “you see the apple? Don’t eat it”. Why not have 3 apples? I’m just saying how funny it is that we can get into things. I think there’s a lot of humor and we have to take ourselves lightly. The work Deb and I do is basically have a sense of humor and take yourselves lightly.

Joe: [20:30] That’s difficult for a lot of the world to do.

Ed: [20:35] That’s true, but at the same time, I think that the greatest thing that anybody could do is things that are difficult. I don’t want to do things that are easy all the time. I jump out of airplanes. I love skydiving. I bungee jump.

Joe: [20:56] What’s the most uncomfortable thing that you do or have done? That you’ve willingly put yourself into that situation.

Ed: [21:13] Nothing’s difficult now. I can’t remember. I just did everything I wanted to. I mean, the most difficult was that when I came out of India I was first swami in the 60s from the hippie generation, and then everybody became famous and I didn’t. That was very, very difficult. I thought I should be more important than everybody else. Now I’m very lucky that it’s not true!

Joe: [21:42] Which was hard to see at the time.

Ed: [21:44] I learned from Lord Stone, who’s one of my friends from Parliament in England, and Arianna Huffington wanted to interview him and stuff. He said no, that he would only let me and Deb… but he said that he doesn’t want to be famous or well-known. He likes to be one step back, and that’s the real fun to me. We were living in Boulder, Colorado and we just did the book with Paul McCartney and Yoko, and we got a package from Yoko. The mailman came and said “Yoko! You’re famous,” and I said, “No, we’re almost famous.” It’s like almost winning a beauty contest; it’s not quite that.

Joe: [22:28] But I think there’s a lot to be said on that, is being – although not in the limelight – the effects and the ripple effects from everything that you’ve done can still be felt in everything that you’ve learned and through your books and through your teachings, and through everybody that’s taught you and every path that you’ve crossed in life.

Ed: [22:49] I feel very blessed. Finish what you’re saying.

Joe: [22:52] I was just saying that I think that every person that you’ve crossed paths with and you’ve touched, that right there must be more fulfilling than anything.

Ed: [23:06] It’s very humbling. The whole trip is very humbling.

Joe: [23:09] That’s the only thing that you can hold on to forever.

Ed: [23:12] Always. The only important thing is to be humble. I’ve had moments that the whole room lit up. I was driving on 9th Street and the whole thing was just getting too beautiful. I was saying, please, I’m driving. Stop. It’s so beautiful, everyone is. It’s just that, do you really want to be free? Are you afraid? Fear is very interesting. Most people live in it. F-E-A-R: False Evidence Appearing Real.

Joe: [23:53] Wow.

Ed: [23:55] We live within that sense of things and it’s going to be bad if I do this or something’s going to happen. You just have to see that it’s the nature of the mind and that’s what we’re dealing with every second. The breath will save us. The mind, if we’re not in control to some degree and we believe what it’s saying, will screw us up.

Joe: [24:17] That false evidence appearing real, it’s true. I’ve sat in plenty of talk therapy sessions for myself over the years, and a lot of the things that I work through personally are stories that I’ve told myself that aren’t real, and it’s a trap that I can’t get to that freedom when I’m in those walls of a story that’s not real.

Ed: [24:47] Most important is nothing matters. That’s the nature of ego. When you were just saying that – so what? In a way, if I fall I’m going to hurt my leg and I’m going to feel it, but it doesn’t have to be my whole story unless it’s hurting and I have to take care of it. It’s if to say things, that’s what yoga nidra’s good about, is that we go into situations where we become the drama, something happens. So it happened. Hi, how you doing? Fine. Okay, let’s move on. All these different worlds, and most people run around hiding. Like fear, if I may say, false evidence appearing real, it’s also, fuck everything and run.

Joe: [25:37] I love it.

Ed: [25:40] The thing is enjoy the journey, enjoy whatever’s happening, and it’s not always going to be good. You might be depressed. Groovy! See what the hell depression is. So you’re depressed! It’s terrible!

Joe: [25:58] And that embarrasses people. It embarrasses people to say that.

Ed: [26:02] That sounds like the ego’s best friend, embarrassment.

Joe: [26:04] Yeah, it does.

Ed: [26:05] You worthless thing. I’m worthless! I even said it to myself. C’mon, stop. Stop the music and enjoy the dance. It’s beautiful.

Joe: [26:21] We’re going to have that written somewhere.

Ed: [26:24] Wow.

Joe: [26:25] So, you’re coming out with another book now.

Ed: [26:28] Yes.

Joe: [26:29] What’s this next book?

Ed: [26:30] This is very interesting, and it’s very important to me. Meditation has been completely – it’s such an overused word, and no one knows what it means. I’m not even Catholic, and every time I think of meditation, I think of a church or something like that. It has this thing. It’s overplayed in a way. Mindfulness has come in, which is good also. What we’re trying to say is that it’s not just meditation and you shouldn’t do it and it’ll make you peaceful and everything. We’re saying the unexpected power. Get this, try it. You saw what the Dalai Lama says, right? Did you see what he says? Treat this book as you would a cookery book. You wouldn’t just read recipes. You try them out, like cookery, meditation only makes sense if you experience it. His holiness the Dalai Lama, Nobel Peace Prize winner. You learn from these people. You’re with them and they’re saying just enjoy your life. Whatever happens, be with it. Be kind to yourself. If something bad happens, take care of yourself. If something good happens, enjoy it. It’s a very quick life. It seems slow at times. Be good. Do good.

Joe: [28:11] One hundred percent. That’s what we’re trying to do, and it takes us learning from people like yourself, so we truly appreciate what you’re sharing here with me and Taylor, but also all of our listeners and the people that will come to his platform and understand more about the message that we’re trying to put out into this world, and stop overcomplicating things.

Ed: [28:33] That’s definitely very important, but the important thing when you say stopping everything; on one level, I agree with you and you should, but it’s a strange thing and it’s taught me through yoga nidra, what you brought me back to. What it is – this is my feeling and it’s just sort of coming up now – but to put more positive thoughts in the mind. When you’re doing yoga nidra one of the things is… I used to say don’t sleep, but it’s much better to say stay awake.

Joe: [29:18] I was listening to your three different things on Spotify that I was listening to on the way up here, and that was what you were saying in the beginning was, I will not sleep. But now reframe that to “I will stay awake.” That’s the thing in Shavasana is I have fallen asleep before.

Ed: [29:39] That’s important. Say what you were going to say, but I want you to know something. Go ahead.

Joe: [29:44] Well, I have fallen asleep before. Shavasana, that is the thing that I look to the most throughout my entire yoga flow and practices, that final resting position.

Ed: [29:59] Shavasana is a yoga posture where you’re lying in the corpse pose, but you’re not doing anything. Is that what you do?

Joe: [30:12] Right.

Ed: [30:13] You’re just resting in that beautiful place.

Joe: [30:14] Yep.

Ed: [30:16] The point is when you’re doing the shavasana and everything, which is the corpse, the resting pose, that’s the very beginning that takes you further into it. So when you do it, what are you saying as far as the rest of the yoga nidra?

Joe: [30:36] I haven’t been practicing any of it, to be honest.

Ed: [30:40] So you’re just beginning in the yoga nidra?

Joe: [30:42] Yeah, which I’m super interested in because as I said, that end is my favorite part, but I want more. I think that there’s a lot more to explore here through what you’re teaching.

Ed: [30:56] I think it’s coming of age where it’s really becoming valuable; because you see, the thing is this: if you were practicing mindfulness, and then you trip and bang your head, you’re not being very mindful. If you’re meditating and you want to punch someone in the head, you’re not being very meditative. The important thing is to learn how to relax first, because if you’re in the relaxation and you’re doing the mindfulness and you might feel like I was supposed to feel mindful and I wasn’t, that’s saying relax. Get rid of the stress first. As you relax then you will naturally go into a more mindful; and then you will naturally go deeper into true meditation. But to meditate and be mindful without the relaxation, without the yoga nidra, is extremely challenging. It’s almost like learning how to run before you’ve walked.

Joe: [32:11] Right, right. It seems like it’s definitely going to take a lot of practice.

Ed: [32:17] With someone like you, I would say no.. and the important thing, of course, is the teacher. If you take a yoga class and the teacher is very, very good but inside is in turmoil, and then a person who’s really at peace, really free and might not teach as good – it’s a hard one because they should – but the important thing is the teacher’s done the yoga nidra themselves and has that awareness, so when they’re sharing it, the person is getting it on a deeper level. A lot of yoga that’s going on in America has a lot to do with the physical.

Joe: [32:59] Very power, very workout…

Ed: [33:01] And it’s very hard because there’s old people and people who can’t do those things that need help too. We have to be able to cater and people who are teaching yoga should bring more attention to doing very easy poses so that people see them and want to do it, rather than look at it and it’s like someone is doing a very extreme posture, and the person says I could never do that in my whole life.

Joe: [33:28] Right. I think that is the hard part for a lot of people is it seems impossible. For me, my favorite part, the most enjoyable part of yoga, is the ability just to be here with my breath, and it doesn’t require me to do some crazy contortion of sort to do that.

Ed: [33:57] This is important. There’s a new thing happening… I really love sharing, I’m sorry I broke in a little bit.

Joe: [34:04] No, you’re fine.

Ed: [34:05] To be very honest, we need to get into some tough yoga. Yoga means awake. I’m a swami, I trained in India as a swami. Swami means to swah-ME – myself. Know myself. One who knows themselves. Their true self, not as a solid individual, but one who’s aware and been initiated. Like, I’m making you a swami right now.

Joe: [34:33] So where…

Ed: [34:44] It’s all transmission and I trained in India.

Joe: [34:48] Knowing the self. What questions do people start with? What do we have to ask for ourselves? What are our likes? What are our dislikes?

Ed Shapiro on One's True Self

Ed: [34:58] To know one’s true self is very humbling. It’s like, you don’t have to love because you are love. It’s very humbling, you know that you know, because all you’re doing is watching the movie of your life. It’s like going to a move theatre. The lights are on, the screen is white; when suddenly, the lights go out, the projector goes on. Then the movie goes on and you get anger, you get love, you get everything, whatever. You go through the whole movie, and you saw it, and you got involved, and then the movie went off. The lights went on and you have the blank screen again. Your consciousness is a blank screen, and the movie is the drama that goes on in your head, your life. But you are the blank screen. You’re the consciousness. It’s like looking in the mirror and you see there’s dust on the mirror. You clear away all the nonsense, all the dust, the nonsense in your own mind. You clear it away and you see the brightness and the beauty. You look in the mirror, and in the beautiful mirror you see your reflection. Look deeper and see the true mirror. The true beauty. We’re all – every single human being – how could it not be?

Joe: [36:46] Yeah. Ed, how can our listeners learn more about your books, find out more about you and Deb, your teachings?

Ed: [36:58] Our website is edanddebshapiro.com.

Joe: [37:16] Very easy.

Ed: [37:17] I hope so. It’s so worth it. I mean, that’s all that matters. I was 26 years old and I knew that the world didn’t seem to be – of course it was the 60s – but it didn’t seem like there was enough love or something. Hippies were going to San Francisco and I went to India to see the source and train with the yogis, and I was very blessed to be able to. It was very humbling, and then meeting you.

Joe: [37:48] Thank you. Thank you for sharing what you have shared here, and I look forward to continuing to learn from you and read your books and join this journey together.

Ed: [38:00] My joy. I would be honored.

Joe: [38:04] I appreciate this interview that you shared with us.

Ed: [38:10] I appreciate it. I wish everybody who’s listening to this, I wish you really know that it’s so important to pay attention. Just even watch your breath throughout the day without even trying. Of course, bringing it to your abdomen, to your navel area, but you’ll suddenly see a breath as you’re breathing in in some of the funniest places. The more you pay attention to it, you’ll suddenly say “oh!” and then you’ll have that kind of thought. Then you breathe in a different way and it’s a different thought and you might be surprised how much your breathing has to do with every breath, and every breath has to do with the words and the thoughts and your life.

Joe: [38:57] Beautiful. Thank you, Ed. I truly appreciate it.

Ed: [39:01] Thank you!

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