CC 010: Adaptogens for Energy, Focus, and Improved Sleep – Mushroom Science with Cali Simpson

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Mushrooms. Adaptogens. Nootropics. Three very trending words in the natural supplements world these days. But fully understanding what they do, who is best suited to use them and, perhaps more importantly, how they are sourced can be a bit of a gray area. Clinical herbalist Cali Simpson breaks down in this episode the potential for optimal wellness in areas such as energy, focus, sleep, and the immune system these herbs hold for us.

Joe Intro: Alright cured Collective listeners I’m sitting here with our good friend Callie Simpson who has been very integral to the creation of several products here at cured two that are out on the market now the “Rise” and cu “Zen” and then one more that is to come and hopefully more in the future as we discuss back and forth. I’m super stoked to have you here on the podcast because you know what we do at Cured and what we stand for is transparency and then education and teaching people about what we do and what goes into our products. Than what’s better than having the person that actually designed a couple of our products on the platform, so thanks for joining me Callie.
Cali: Thanks, I am super excited to be joining you for my first podcast recording and co design. I would say I co designed.

Joe: It was a collaborative effort. We had our guinea pigs trials here. I took six of them capsules and got some headaches and stuff that we had to do.

Cali: *laughter* It is we need to do those clinical trials we have to have the empirical data.

Joe: So I guess to start let’s just give the listeners a little bit of background on yourself and what you do as a profession. Obviously you helped us design some products but let’s dive into that a little bit and you know what kind of got you interested in this world that you live in.

Cali: I’ve been in the health world for over a decade and teaching yoga and healing, energy healing, Reiki and massage. Living in Colorado the last nine years I have been so blown away by all of the medicinal herbs that are just growing everywhere you know. Living in the mountains and having Mullen outside and getting to Harvest Osha Root and wild-crafting Arnica. You know I knew I wanted to go deeper into having more tools in my toolbox to offer other than the physical, the physiological offering and spiritual of yoga and massage. So I started apprenticing with naturopathic doctors and with acupuncturists and Chinese herbal doctors in the TCM tradition. Then it got really clear that I wanted to work with Westerners because I wanted to be able to utilize what was growing outside my house. So I found the Colorado School of clinical herbalism back in 2014 and started taking classes in 2015. I went through their fundamentals and advanced program I did a year of clinicals working with clients in her clinic, and you know worked with hundreds of defense case studies of clients. Then the last two years I’ve been working one-on-one with clients as well as consulting companies who are trying to incorporate herbal formulations with their products whether it’s topical or supplemental.

Joe: I guess I might be dumb in this area, Callie: ‘No you’re not”. Cured: You said Western herbs I guess I didn’t even realize that there was obviously Eastern medicine and Western medicine but then you said Western herbs, what’s the clear differentiation?

Cali: The herbs that grow in the area of the world so Ayurveda are using predominantly herbs that are grown in India and traditional Chinese medicine where there’s acupuncturists that they’re also using herbs are grown in China and in the western herbs are the herbs of Europe, America, Canada and Mexico. So yeah just because we’re surrounded by those herbs I wanted to know them more. The truth is there’s quite a bit of crossover of the most common herbs like the Chinese and Indian herbs that are used in Western herbalism so I studied them as well. You know a few that will probably talk about today like Ashwagandha, Asian Ginsengs and a lot of turmeric , a lot of the Asians herbs are used in Western herbalism and are now cultivated there.

Joe: Where would mushrooms grow as a whole, where would they originate from?

Cali: Interesting, I would say in Asia. Still most of the cultivation is going on in Asia.

Joe: Its interesting because when I told you when I had Jeff Shelton from Namek on the podcast it’s interesting because you know for the hemp world, in the Cannabis world, in the CBD world we kind of talk bad because it’s coming from China. You don’t know what’s in it but then like Jeff Schooled me like all the best mushrooms and the cultivation of mushrooms are coming from China. We got to be careful but like what we say I like what’s being Imported and Exported and what’s good and what’s not.

Cali: I like you do have to be more careful with herbs that are coming from China because they have been aerated, has it been changed? Is it actually what they are saying it is? I think you know we are getting that stereotype and generalization that things that come from China aren’t good and it isn’t true but it’s sometimes true and so you know we’re having to just do our homework more on our product and our sourcing. This is something I was so impressed with you guys. How much you care about the ingredients, where they were sourced and their quality.

Joe: It’s unfortunate because there are a lot of uneducated consumers out there in the world and you know when things become trendy like CBD for example that’s what sells. The three letters C-B-D sells and not like the back end of like okay like where is this coming from like what type of quality control like you know all that type of stuff. It’s unfortunate the uneducated consumer and it doesn’t the responsibility doesn’t even fall on them because how are they supposed to know the difference? So the responsibility falls on us of the brands and the companies that are bringing these products out into the world. We could in specifically looking at the CBD world it’s like okay it’s blowing up people are making you know here’s a chance to make a lot of money, great that’s cool but is that sustainable is that the Cured message? Is that what we want to stand for? No we want to, one like that’s not okay for anybody but two like yes this is a company, yes we want to make money. It’s all about making money obviously when you’re a business but at the end of the day like we want a return customer we want somebody to come back.

Cali: You want that for business but you want that because what you guys stand for is making people feel better. You truly want people to feel healthier and more vibrant, more vital in their lives. That they you know show up to everyone else in the world can change their life because they’re showing up as their best in their inspiring the best. It changes the world in that way, it’s a trickle-down effect and I like hands down working with you guys more than other companies. I found that you cared about the quality of the product and that what the formulation was. That’s something that was going to be what’s best for the general mass of consumer. It’s very easy to throw a whole bunch of you know things like CBD and nootropics and adaptogens into one place and you know how people buy it but what you cared about was: “is it’s going to be something that’s healthy, sustainable, and restorative to health, is it you know it’s going to bring the gold desired effect? and you know it is it something that can long-term be helpful and then on top of that then you go and how can we get the absolute best quality ingredients so that our consumer, a customer feels the best they can feel. Is it ethical?

Joe: That’s the thing is we like start we started promoting the Rise and the Zen quite a bit and like October / November time frame and we didn’t release them till the end of January. What people don’t understand is that actually the idea of these products started a year ago and we were like coming up with ideas, really going to other companies that carry similar products and then we started working with you in the summer or in like summer?

Cali: Yeah in July, like in the summer.

Joe: Summer and we went through several inner visions and we went to trials in house and out of house. We filled out all the paper work that was asking very specific questions and have to be in tubed with going on in our bodies and seeing the effects over time. We touched on it a bit but the big thing was we didn’t want to go “hey we are going to throw the kitchen sink together and just throw all these trendy things together. “ We love those, you love those and they work but we have to be very particular with the sourcing them and then the formulation. That was why we turned to somebody like yourself and you know in the very beginning you started putting together those Excel spreadsheets that were the actions in the energetics and contraindications and it was like holy shit! I looked at that spreadsheet and I was like wow there’s so much. I think that that was really important learning curve for me but you know for any other company out there trying to design a product or whoever it maybe it was it was those who like the most important steps because the things that you were looking were okay we want make these products safe. We also need to understand like how do all of these interact with each other, how they interact with maybe other medications or on their lifestyle, so that whole initial process was a lot.

Cali: it is a lot and you are exactly right to think and to say and to now know that herbs are complex. I think in trying to produce a new product you want it to be simple. You want to put these things together and they’re all having this effect but its pigeonholing and herb. For example Asian ginseng is an adaptogen that provides energy and stamina. Is it true? Yeah, it’s an adaptogen that provides energy and stamina but it’s also unsafe to think that, that adaptogen and you know the dosage that maybe is most often recommended is safe and useful for the average consumer. It’s a very warming, very stimulating adaptogen and there’s a lot of people out there that are already warm, that are already little bit anxious, that already have a little bit of issues sleeping and if they get too much Asian ginseng and then a daily dose they’re going to have high blood pressure. They’re going to have insomnia. They’re going to have diarrhea, or they’re going to have anxiety. There’s still much to look at with exactly what you were saying with contraindications, with dosage, with balancing the energetics. Whether it’s hot cold, dry, or moist along with what most people are looking at which is the clinical actions. Is it cardio protected adaptogen? Its complex and it’s so important to look at all parts of it and then all parts of it as a formula to see the Synergy like what is it that you’re creating in this final product. Is it going to be a balance product that’s good for the average person, the majority? The communitarian supplement or is it going to throw off a lot of people because it’s too overheating.

Joe: I want to dive into that little bit more because so how it works was like we came to you; we’re like hey we want a.m. and p.m. formula we want to be able to help people with their focus, their mental clarity, their energy throughout the day, their stamina. Then we want something that’s going to help you relax like at night, maybe like a CMS central nervous system relaxing. We want them to be able to sleep and stay asleep and then also not be groggy. There’s a lot that went into it. It’s also funny because you mentioned like the average consumer and when we first started our trials like I came from bodybuilding I’ve taken a lot of pre-workout and I can handle stimulants. Teo he doesn’t, he’s not used to stimulants and we would take the same amount.

Cali: I think he doesn’t like stimulants because he easily over stimulated to begin with. Hes a red head, he found that quickly. Some people will take a stimulating supplement and feel amazing and some people take stimulating supplements and they’ll feel anxious and have diarrhea and be jittery you know. And so people who need stimulants loves them and even still both feel clear energized focused. If possible it’s just can we make a balanced formula to do it.

Joe: So can you explain a little bit more what you were saying warming and Cooling and then moist and dry you’re looking at each ingredient and I had no idea what you were talking about. Intuitively like it make sense, if it warms the body. Could you dive into that a little more because I think it would be interesting?

Cali: Lets back up a little bit more because everything has a constitution so humans have a constitution, food has a constitution, the seasons in your environment has the Constitution, as well as herbs have a constitution. That Constitution is created by energetics. The energetics are on a spectrum of heat and coolness and moisture and dryness. There are four different variables there that can be intermixed in interchanged, just like there are four different types of person that incorporate moist and hot moist and cold dry and hot dry in cold. The herbs like people have these unique constitutions and energetics. Now I’m going to throw in a caveat because there is Individuality. The herbs even though we were in the majority of people we say are you know this herb is warm and moist and this herb is cool and dry that’s how the majority of people who receive it. By individuality says that there could be one person who feels one to be cooling when the majority of people find it to be warming. We stick with the majority when we’re formulating for the masses. If I’m formulating for one person working one-on-one then you work with their sorted by individual it again idiosyncrasies and that way. I’m looking at all of the different substances and you guys are brilliant wanting to mix CBD with mushrooms with vitamins and minerals with herbs! How cool is that I don’t know anyone else is mixing all those together and they all work beautifully together in a synergistic blends but you’re wanting to take all of these different ingredients and you want to mix them together and looking at their profile. Almost like you would look at me if you were putting a team of people together, like you were starting your business here pretty putting people together, how old is everyone in your work, will they work well with each other. You know what the personality types of the person really angry, is it for them to calm down and what we did is with herbs and with being very selective of which substances. With that we created two really balanced formulas, so that for the general population in I would say 90% of people they are going to have the or maybe even more than that but the exact desired effect that you want and not throw any like if someone already has moisture in their system there’s a phlegmy person showed up at like a body system maybe they have more wetness in their digestion or more wetness in their lungs, asthma things like that, there isn’t too much moisture in this product and is not going to throw them of. Or you know someone who has too many heat signs and are already very anxious and super driven and maybe have a little bit of trouble going to sleep at night, it won’t throw them off cuz there isn’t too much heating in this blend either. The whole idea sort of looking at the herbs as the complete, and pairing them with each other to find a balance so that when they’re paired with a person who has all these different energetic s within them. It creates balance.

Joe: It was super fun to watch the different responses from everybody because yes we saw the difference between Teo and myself and then I’m not sure if you met Richard the owner of Susie’s but he’s seventy eight years old. I was like yeah I don’t know like I take three Rise and I am just like on point. I was like I don’t know like what like I don’t know like besides like coffee what other stimulants our older Generations like using. I was curious to see if like the feedback from him, and he was obsessed with them. My generation like is like okay like there’s so much stuff out there like energy drinks and like this and that and it’s just like it’s crazy so it was cool to see just the feedback that we are getting from everybody. Like you said like it once we once we nailed in the formulation it was so consistent the feedback that we were getting and I haven’t shared this with you yet so breaking it here but with the Zen we have consistently had people come back to us and say that’s the first time I’ve dreamt in a really long time.

Cali: I was like really good deep sleep I’m so glad that is so cool. The Zen was really fascinating to work with you guys on because you were aware that you wanted a calming product and that you wanted it to help people sleep in to stay asleep and but I think you also really wanted something to make people go to sleep. For a lot of people it’s really hard to fall asleep and in the herbal world that’s a challenge at from people who are really insomniacs, it’s a challenge to use herbs to get them to knock out, especially without feeling drowsy in the morning. I want people to fall asleep and sleep through the night and wake up feeling energized and ready for the day. It was really interesting working with you guys on a on the formulation for Zen because I really I wanted it to be something that helps people go to sleep. I think it does because it stopped any of that mental static; it stopped all the energetic anxious droning of the mind that can happen when you lay down. You know we live in a world of constant cell phones and social media and screens and we are not in sync with our circadian rhythm. That’s not when we get tired but you know we have these herbal allies that can help us calm all of that mental chatter , calm that sort of buzzing that leads to a burnout overwhelmed and gets you in a state that allows for sleep to come in. It’s not exactly knocking you out but then we started to let go of the idea that it might knock you out and sleep. We got such amazing feedback of you know I fell asleep and then I sustained sleep I sleep really well tonight and I feel really good the next day like.

Joe: I have no trouble waking up too cuz I don’t want to be groggy when I wake up. It’s one I could get you something that for sure knocks you out but you’re not going to wake up. It’s like you can get one but not the others. It was really fun to work on and to be test dummies as well. It’s funny because I am so type A and literally like 5-10 minutes ago you like you just described me like type A, I like go go go go and like can’t stop thinking like so basically I was like I would like to have products that would help me.

Cali: I love simulants which is exactly what the type a person says write something to help me go even faster, even more, more productivity and more focused while I’m doing it and then you’re like and then please can you help me go to sleep at night cuz that’s a really hard.

Joe: I was being a little selfish with the design of these products but I think we like for the most part all of us in this world have the kind of the same issues. I wanted to spend a little bit of time on specifically adaptogens and then mushrooms. I guess just to start A lot what is it and what does it mean.

Cali: Adaptogens are herbs that help the body adapt to the stress response. What that means is that these herbs nourishing the adrenal glands, it means that they’re supporting the HPA axis which is the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, which is the when you think of courtesan adrenaline the stress response in the body at that sits the mechanism is within that access in the body it’s supporting energy production. All these herbs are you know helping the body support itself through stressful times and stressors of environments of mental stresses or emotional stresses and then it’s also its nourishing and a nutritive to the systems of the body that adrenal glands that really get worked during stress. and because of this it helps the body go from a sympathetic nervous system state to that fight or flight into a parasympathetic state where we can rest and digest that were not constantly in that anxious overworked burnt out stressed mode but can be energized from a calm relaxed state of receiving .

Joe: That was the whole idea of that well both products but Rye specifically. People were asking like why is CBD in there and there’s a couple other actually I view CBD as an adaptogen I think I will truly believe like that’s how it’s going to be classified going for like helping and there’s not a lot there’s not enough like deep deep research into it there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence of it working and actually had a psychiatrist on the podcast 2 days ago and diving back to the adrenal fatigue like I was I was discussing with her. That my anxiety which about 6 years ago turned into depression talking about my lifestyle at the time and how I was getting so anxious and then I got depressed and suicidal. After an hour of talking she goes like I see that I see what you’ve shared with me, I see you know your history as an engineer and like a high-stress high-strung person and I think that you had adrenal fatigue. That was then leading to maybe anxiety and that was like the root causes because a lot of the things are like Band-Aids and it’s like surface-level like let’s get the symptoms out of the way let’s not actually get to like the root cause. From my understanding and learning more and more and talking to you and understanding adaptogens more and like we’re actually going to the root cause of a lot of issues and rather than just like slapping a Band-Aid on things.

Cali: I agree with that and want to speak on top of it. This is that adaptogens could act as a Band-Aid if they’re being taken when you have true burnout like adrenal fatigue burnout. I think more of us has and sort of overwhelm, overactive adrenals where were not in burnout mode yet, burnout mode is like truly like your fried. The only reason I think adaptogens at that point works as a Band-Aid and can be unsafe. You’re a full tank and then focusing you get to empty and then you still have that reserve tank right so you have maybe Thirty miles in your car well a human has way more and we call it the Vital Reserve and so if you’re not eating nourishing food the actual lifestyle practices that you need in order to fill back up to that reserved you can run on that reserve for a really long time and adaptogens will continue to work on a HPA access so that you feel like you have energy but you’re still burning out the reserve. It’s really working with adaptogens it’s necessary to do so when you’re not in a complete burnt out state and if you’re getting sleep, if you’re eating good food, you’re hydrated then your refilling your reserve enough that you don’t have to worry about working with adaptogens. That’s why it’s so brilliant that in your Rise and Zen there are the vitamins and minerals that are necessary co-factors for energy production and you know that we’ve got in there nervine which are really supportive of the nervous system and again take a lot of the sympathetic nervous system fight or flight state and into the parasympathetic nervous system.

Joe: Obviously I take them every single day but like it weren’t even if it wasn’t formulated by like my company these are like two products I’ve been like this is absolutely incredible and I have been taking them every day. One thing that we did talk about and I want to get back to mushrooms but is taking breaks like so I know that you mentioned it at one point and I kind of want you to explain to the listeners maybe it’s like things to notice or like things that you need to do.

Cali: Which is just another way of playing out the Integrity of Cured and you guys because what company who is selling a product wants to tell their consumers to take a break from their products. There are some differing opinions about how long you should take them for studies show that adaptogens work best if they’re taken at least for two to three week. We’ve seen that issue with adaptogen is that they’re on a scale of calming to very stimulating and if there are some stimulating adaptogens in there they can have a rebound effect which like we all know a caffeine if you’re drinking caffeine regularly and then he have a day where you don’t have it you feel more sluggish. With adaptogens you probably won’t have the full detox of headaches and things like that but you could still have a rebound effect when you take adaptogens regularly and then you go off them. Where you kind of got reliant on that for your energy. There’s a rule of 6 is it called the rule of 6 with adaptogens, if you’re planning on taking adaptogen every single day from multiple weeks then you want to take one day off. So you have six days on and one day off if you plan on taking them for six weeks or more and you take them for six days a week for six weeks and then you take one week off if you plan on taking them for 6 months or more than you do 6 days a week one week off for six months and then you take the seven-month off. It’s just giving your body a little bit of a break from them to stay like how does my stress responds normally, how to make energy normally work and not relying on the adaptogen for my energy and then you shouldn’t have a rebound effect. You also were asking is if anyone is feeling overheated if they’re having the experience of loose bowels and they get anxious from them, either you can just scale back, which you know it was really smart that the recommended dosage was one to three because at one capsule and I would be very surprised if anyone’s having and over stimulating effect if possible but I’d be very surprised. At 3 capsules for some people maybe they might be feeling overstimulated in that stop point you know scale back and take one capsule or taking long-term especially cuz we have nerves in their nutritive than they’re even have a restorative which was working and nourishing way in the realm of skull cap on the nervous system but where you take them for a long periods of time and they have lasting effects on the nervous system and so there’s a lot that is balanced in these and you don’t need to be scared to take them for a long period of time but it is a general rule with adaptogens and if you’re taking them daily you want to take those little breaks in the rules of 6.

Joe: That is extremely helpful because at the end of the day is like yeah I just want everybody to be educated to understand like hey this is I mean when we talk about lifestyle, when you’re talking about nutrition, when you’re talking about like cured. We got the message that way anyways meditate ,do yoga, eat good food, drink water and then and then let’s like you know at the end of the day we need to take care of ourselves in the way that like humans have been forever. Like, movement with sunlight all those types of things but then that doesn’t mean that we were not going to potentially need supplements to supplement everything else that were doing right now.

Cali: so you can I bring up magnesium now because talking about supplements and I mean you who work out really hard right now you have a history of that and magnesium which we have in the Zen supplement. 75% of American adults are deficient in magnesium and that’s a huge number magnesium is required in 300 different enzyme, what’s the word I’m looking for, reactions in the body 300 defense enzymatic reactions about a magnesium is required for. The fact that 75% of American adults are deficient in magnesium is just crazy to me.

Joe: Do you know why?

Cali: Well when people work out they’re using so much magnesium in order to relax the muscle as they are working the muscle and also calcium is required in the selection of muscle and magnesium is required in the relaxation of the muscles but so many different relaxing mechanisms in the body require magnesium. People who push really hard and don’t rest a lot and replenish themselves will be depleted of magnesium and I think what’s happened in America is the average person pushing themselves so hard and they’re not replenishing themselves. We have a full dose of magnesium in that which it does help you sleep too and will help your digestion but three it helps in 300 different mechanisms. It’s massive and in a most people really needed as a supplement and then we’re like and why are we deficient to maybe it’s cuz real athlete maybe it’s because there isn’t magnesium in our soil anymore, maybe it’s hard though, we get magnesium usually from greens and I think there’s like a resurgence of people eating greens or kale and your green smoothies and green juices and all that but maybe there isn’t anymore because we get magnesium from our soil and maybe we cant. I do think it’s important to supplement especially if you’re experiencing any sort of symptoms that might require a little extra attention you know if you’re like unable to focus or you’re feeling really drowsy here you know you’re up at 4, you’re getting that urge to eat chocolate or drink caffeine because you’re so tired you know that’s very normal and it’s probably because there’s something missing in your diet and your lifestyle. If you can’t figure that out then sometimes it’s great to get the supplement of your B vitamins that are going to help produce energy level or magnesium to help you get sleep or to help your digestion. I mean there is yeah there’s stuff here to help us and herbal allies here to help us.
Joe: And we are talking to the right person here to help us with all of it. Let’s talk about mushrooms for a little bit and then we will start to wrap things up. So we got Lions Mane , and Cordyceps in the Rise and Reishi in the Zen. Can you kind of just go through those three mushrooms and discuss why people are using them and why we put them in the formulas and at the like the concentrations that we did.

Cali: There is a decent concentration and yeah so I’ll start with what’s in the rise with the Lions Mane and the cordyceps. Lion’s mane , mushrooms are so amazing and all the ways they alter the mind.

Joe: Yes, like that that’s exactly what I was talking to the psychiatrist on the last podcast I was like I got her on the podcast to talk about CBD and then we started to talk about psilocybin and the way it’s helping people in so many different ways, so mushrooms yes, the whole world is super interesting to me. Obviously what we’re doing are not psychedelic mushrooms what were incorporated is not obviously psychedelic mushrooms and mushrooms in general have just so much potential to do so much for us.

Cali: *jokingly* Aliens, planted mushrooms, I know they are not part of the plant world. Mushrooms are closer to the Animal Kingdom than they are the plant world. Lions Mane is the mushroom of our neurons, nootropic everyone says that word differently so when I say I don’t like correct me, it provides an adaptogen and we talked about what that is but it also provides incredible medicine for the nervous system any sort of nerve disorder any I guess I want to speak to cognitive disorder, memory and in their finding that lion’s mane is super helpful for an Alzheimer’s patient and focused, it also provides energy but it provides such because if this you know for the nerves that is incredible mushroom medicine for the nervous system provides such a calm clear focused. I think the idea of the Lions Mane is that it provides the energy of the lion. Lions sleep a lot but you could sleep on lion’s mane.

Joe: Where do cordyceps grow?

Cali: This species grow from caterpillars, they grow out of their heads. The species that most people think of when I think of cordyceps and then they became so crazy expensive because they couldn’t be cultivated and they had to be harvested like way up in the Himalayas and you know only the kings and queens got cordyceps because they were so hard to harvest and so expensive to get and what’s amazing is that through our research on doing these and thi sRye supplement we found that there is this new species cordyceps militaris and you guys source that and they’re finding it has the exact medicinal profile as the cordyceps sinensis and yet it can be clultivated. It’s now been cultivated, it’s way more affordable than the you know original cordyceps sinensis and cordyceps provide incredible clean energy so endurance stamina are used a lot for sexual stamina libido. So a lot of herbs that are stimulants and provide energy you can kind of get that burn out there as soon as they use it for energy like caffeine and you work out really hard and then afterwards there’s sort of that leg and I’m exhausted I need to take a couple day break or something like that cordyceps to sustain that stamina and endurance and energy there yeah they’re incredible. Both of those is extracted in hot water so a lot of companies that are utilizing mushrooms are just using fruiting bodies that are extracted in water first and so the medicine isn’t released in them. You know it’s like how much of the polysaccharides the terpenes are you getting and if there isn’t that extra and also a ton of companies are using my ciliated brain and those idiots in the mushroom world that are choosing to use my ciliated brain and I just think that the studies are showing that all that’s coming back or starches and sugars when they’re testing the constituents in the mycelium grain, fruiting body extract which are coming back with high terpene polysaccharide and you’re like the studies are proving that the fruit and bodies are the way to go. I love them I use them a lot and I like studying them and don’t feel like I’m an expert.

Joe: so how about Reishi?

Cali: Reishi is a calmative, it is a gaba neurotransmitters in the brain Gaba and glutamate you can think of them like the yin and the Yang of the brain. Gabba produces that again relaxed healing and reishi provide that for us it’s a calmative and yet it also gives you energy it’s amazing but it has all of that and it has these incredible immunomodulating properties where you know it’s figures out what immune system needs, if it needs to be ramped up or if it needs to be ramped down. Sometimes that are immune system especially in like autoimmune disease is in overdrive mode and immunomodulating mushrooms like Reishi can help hold that down so that your immune system is working at the proper level. Reishi it provides just really calm focused, relaxed sustained, relaxed energy and so it’s beautiful in Zen and make you go to sleep

Joe: Honestly its beautiful looking, the forms that all of these just a visual aspect of all these mushrooms.

Cali: Reishi, I’m going to speak to form again because just you guys did your research , like you’re getting here using the best form and ingredients that you can and Reishi you that you’re using as then is a dual extract so often in supplements and then I even call for my clients I’ll call supplement companies and be like hey is your ratio dual extract and they don’t even know what I’m talking about the tribunes out of it you have to have an alcohol extract and in order to get the polysaccharides out of it with your the immunomodulating properties you have to have a water extract so the ratio is in Dino’s then and that you guys have so much is a dual extract that has been affected by alcohol and water and then turn into a powder form so you’re getting all of the medicine.

Joe: Yes, the full spectrum effects. Those of you that are listening this podcast hear us preaching the benefits of full spectrum cannabinoids it’s the same and it’s the same in the mushroom world. I’m super happy with the way those products turned out so thank you for all your work with us on that.

Cali: It has been so fun to work with you guys.

Joe: Before we and I wanted to give you some time for listen to be able to connect with you further if it’s your social to your website anything so go ahead and all that good stuff so I can get in contact with you.

Cali: yeah so I’m Callie Simpson as Joe said but actually go by my middle name professionally so it’s Callie Leola aand you can definitely find me on Instagram at Calie Leola at c a l i l e Ola I’m also just starting now postpartum Natural Health on Instagram and that is going to be under the sacred sacrifice so it’s all spelled out the sacred sacrifice I just had a baby so now focusing majorly postpartum on everything and my email address is cali.leola@clinicalherbalism.com and hopefully a website coming soon

Joe: Thanks again, hopefully we get to work with you again as we bring more carefully curated products to Cured. It’s been super educational as always.

Follow Cali @calileola

Follow Joe @josephsheehey

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