CC 047: Confusion Around the CBD Industry with Laurin Conlin
Certain industries sometimes become so popular so fast that it can cause confusion and even the perception that those in it do not fully understand what they are promoting. Laurin Conlin, an IFBB Bikini Pro and physique coach with an MS in Exercise Science, brings her passion and expertise about providing quality information to her clients and audience to the show today while helping us challenging the norms within the CBD industry to have a better overall understanding of it all.
Read the Full Transcript
Joe: [00:03] I’m here with the world traveler, Laurin Conlin.
Laurin: [00:06] That’s the first time I’ve heard that intro, but I’m not mad about it. If anybody doesn’t know what he’s talking about, which is probably everybody listening, let’s be honest, I was in Vegas for about 4 days for the Olympia. Then, I went to L.A. for 2 days as kind of a layover; I stayed with one of my friends. And then flew to Singapore, and then was there for a few days doing a seminar. Then, flew right back, and then flew here to Denver; so, I’ll be here for a few days with a 15-day hike, total. But the thing with the Singapore travel is that it literally from Eastern Standard Time is 12 hours ahead, so it was a complete opposite day. When you leave, like, I left on a Wednesday morning and I got there on a Thursday night. Then, when I left, I left on Monday morning their time, and then I got here Monday night. It’s this really weird time warp of like space and travel.
Joe: [01:06] Yeah, and you’re still working through it. By the time you get back to Florida, you’re not going to know what the hell you were doing or who you are.
Laurin: [01:13] But that’s why I stayed as much as I could on the west coast, because it was, ok, let’s try and just knock out a few of these west coast trips because I already needed to be that way. Singapore to Florida is one of the actual farthest places you can go. It is the complete opposite. It is pretty wild how far it is. But I’m here!
Joe: [01:35] I flew to Abu Dhabi from L.A. once and I think it’s probably similar. It was like 17 hours.
Laurin: [01:40] Where’s it at?
Joe: [01:41] Abu Dhabi is in the UAE, close to Dubai. Basically, if you were going to Dubai, you’d fly – well, I’m sure Dubai has an airport. Yeah, they for sure do.
Laurin: [01:50] Obviously.
Joe: [01:52] Abu Dhabi is like an hour south of Dubai. So, what was the – we didn’t even really talk about this – what was the specific topic that you were speaking on?
Laurin: [02:06] At the event, it was a two day. The first day was just all lectures and the second day was more hands-on at the gym. My talk was specifically on basically where you should be before you start a diet or a prep. So, basically, all of the things beforehand that you need to cover from a mental perspective, physical perspective, hormonal perspective, and just general timeline. Also, lifestyle too. I really covered a lot of the stuff that people generally forget or they just like to sweep under the rug because it’s very easy to focus on a weight loss goal, particularly if you’re a competitor, as you know. It’s very easy to dial in to that, but the offseason is generally a mess for a lot of people. And they get into these bad habits, and then they think oh, I’m just going to prep again, it’ll fix everything. Or really, the offseason is probably the most important part, which a lot of people – the problem is it’s a lot slower as far as what you’re seeing, and a lot of times, you’re not even really seeing the benefits. When you’re dieting or you’re prepping, every week things are getting more extreme and you’re getting leaner. It’s awesome, right? It’s visibly-
Joe: [03:10] And you wake up and you’re dehydrated, and you can see the difference. When you’re carrying a little bit more bodyfat, you’re dehydrated and you wake up, and you don’t really see the difference.
Laurin: [03:19] Yeah, you’re like, did I gain a quarter pound of muscle? Like, you can’t see that. But that’s really where all the work is put in, and something that I really harp on in general is that no habits are really built when you’re dieting, so all the habits that healthy need to be put into place in an offseason. It was actually really cool, we did… Eric Helms kicked it off, and he talked, in general, just about contest prep – he just talked about a bunch of different things – but kinda just a more holistic view of everything. Then, I talked about where you should be beforehand. Alberto Nunez talked about kind of a competition prep timeline and just prep in general. He had a really, really great talk. Cliff Wilson talked about peaking. So, it was a very well-rounded, like holistic view of dieting and contest prep. We’re actually putting it together, we’re going to sell the recordings because a lot of people asked us. Obviously, it was in Singapore, and a lot of people in the States really wanted to go or to listen, so we actually are going to do that. Which we normally don’t do for events, but we just thought because we had such a great response, like people just kept asking all of us, like is this going to be available. So, that will be available within a few weeks. I don’t know when this is going out, but it will be in a few weeks.
Joe: [04:30] I’m not sure. I’m getting a nice library of podcasts built up, which is – and you know – whenever… if you’re trying to be consistent on it, and you want to release a podcast every single week, which is preferable for your listeners, for your community, for your team that produces the podcast, just everything. When you stay on that schedule, it’s nice, but sometimes it’s tough to get a podcast out every single week. So, it might be a little while until it comes out.
Laurin: [04:57] Batch recording is super nice.
Joe: [04:59] Yeah. So, let’s talk about some interesting things that we tend to see in this health and fitness industry. We see… there’s always waves. We were leaving the gym last night, and I was like why do I feel like CBD has turned into Fit Tea? And your response was basically like, “Well, I think some people actually view it that way,” because there’s major misconceptions, and the language and narrative around the cannabinoid industry is – and I think this happens with any industry or ingredient or product that just skyrockets has this crazy exponential growth to presence, or whatever you want to say, like where did that come from? It’s kind of like how we saw Instagram become a thing, and fitness Instagram become a thing, and-
Laurin: [05:57] Fitspos.
Joe: [05:58] Yeah, fitspo #health.
Laurin: [06:00] Same thing happened with coaching. Well, “coaching.” Same thing happened with supplements. It’s very similar, in my opinion, to the old supplement game. Then, now a lot of the big companies are doing corrective measures to put out better information and better products, ultimately. Of course, better information, but ultimately, better products, and that’s really what-
Joe: [06:24] Because you can’t hide. When you put out the correct information, you can’t hide behind a shitty product.
Laurin: [06:29] Exactly. Nobody, I mean, nothing surprises me anymore, to be completely honest. But generally, the people who are putting out quality information are generally also putting out quality products as well. So, I think with CBD in general, when you guys started 2 years ago it was very different as far as the fitness community.
Joe: [06:48] Nobody. Nobody knew what it was.
Laurin: [06:51] Obviously, the – I would say there’s already been a hemp and cannabis community for years that’s been operating – like, clearly, that’s been going on. But fitness and CBD, no.
Joe: [07:04] The connection of how we can actually use this to better our health was never made.
Laurin: [07:10] Was not really there. Again, I don’t know everything about the cannabis industry outside of the fitness industry, so I don’t want to overstep that and be completely wrong. As far as fitness, no. Nobody knew anything about it, and what ended up happening, from an outsider perspective, obviously – I’ve been working with Cured since you guy’s started – but from an outsider perspective, it was what’s this new thing, looks like it might be good, here’s some benefits about it, let me try it, it doesn’t seem like it’ll be harmful.
Joe: [07:40] Right.
Laurin: [07:41] I’ll try it and see if it’s helpful. I always tell people, try something, as long as it’s not harmful, because there could be some validity for you. Obviously, I’m very science-based, so I appreciate when there’s evidence behind things, but I also understand how science works, and how research works, and if you haven’t worked in a research lab, you don’t really have a place to speak about this because it is incredibly challenging to get research done, in general, and incredibly challenging to get research done on things that most people are actually interested in. Even just from our lab, when doing physique science research, I mean, that’s taken Dr. Campbell, my mentor, years of building a base to actually get here. Now we run full-blown physique science research. We have physique science classes. It’s completely different, but it took years to get there. With CBD, I feel it was kind of this there might be something good to it, but we’re not really sure; let’s try it out. And then, the explosion happened. I don’t know who started it, what started it, but I think people just found it as a way, like this is the next thing, and they started producing low quality products. Then, they started, which is really the worse thing, they started claiming extravagant things.
Joe: [09:01] Right.
Laurin: [09:02] So now, what’s ended up happening about 2 years later, roughly, we’re at a place now where CBD, at first, it was this might be good for us, to this is the best thing we’ve ever fucking seen, to now it’s almost a joke… because the way that people have bastardized what it can do. CBD’s great. I’ve been taking it everyday for 2 years. I see benefits from it. It doesn’t cure every single problem you’ve ever had.
Joe: [09:27] You’re right, you’re right. It’s so funny because as a company named Cured, we – if you have followed us from the very beginning, the only thing that you’ve seen on our Instagram or through our education – well, how we directly market it, and how we’ve said since the very beginning, the longest time our Instagram said accelerate recovery, improve health. And that was it. We talked about, ok, from an anti-inflammatory standpoint, what do we need to look at, what can inflammation do in the body, and what products, including CBD, and how can they help have an impact on inflammatory responses in our body, or any type of inflammation in our body, and what’s benefit to that. So, we’ve always been educating around that, understanding we have this endocannabinoid system, we’ve always been set up to accept endogenous and exogenous cannabinoids or phytocannabinoids. Well, if we have that system, well duh, of course it’s going to beneficial, and there must be other things that regulate that system as well; so, what are those, and what does that system have effects on in the body? What is the function of the endocannabinoid system? It’s honestly really simple, but still being explored. For the most part, it’s getting us to homeostasis. That system has a lot to do with our sleep-wake cycles, our metabolism, and our mood. Ok, so great. Let’s just focus on that, and let’s just focus on why those are important. Then, yeah, a bunch of companies will come along, and they make a bunch of outlandish claims, and, let’s be real, that sells because the consumer isn’t educated enough to ask differently; and if somebody has been looking for something for so long, they’re looking for an answer. People are all looking for answers regardless of what it may be, whether it be terminal illnesses, whatever. Like, we don’t talk about that shit because we can’t talk about that stuff, and it’s very clear that no supplement company can talk about that. From an FDA and FTC standpoint, that’s a big no-no. For companies to be doing that is really frustrating to see because they’re making money off of it, and since we’ve had such a crazy explosion in the industry, the regulatory systems have their hands full, so they can’t really do anything. Now, right now, a bunch of companies are making a bunch of money on products that have outlandish claims. Then, second of all, might not even have CBD in them at all. And if they do, who the hell knows where it’s coming from. How do you understand where it’s coming from? How do you understand what else is in the product? There’s so many questions that people should be asking that people aren’t asking.
Laurin: [12:33] I mean, it’s the same thing with any product. So, I have a lot of clients who have just issues, right? Obviously – that’s why I’m a coach.
Joe: [12:43] I got issues too.
Laurin: [12:44] Broadly speaking, issues, but many of them will have GI issues or GI distress, or whatever. So, I’m fully open to science, I’m fully open to experience, I’m fully open to other different things, not locked into one thing. But, I do have kind of a high bullshit detector. I’ve been trying to be open with clients maybe seeing some more holistic people and these doctors, they’ll call themselves, and I’ve just been really, really unimpressed with the functional medicine side of things. Not everybody, but I’m just very wary because they all seem to say the same thing. Everybody has the same problem. Different people, different problems – oh, it’s this, and they’re always pointing – and I’m not just trying to rag on functional medicine, because there’s a lot of positives from it, but there are a lot of negatives when somebody comes to you in a very distressed state, who’s now vulnerable, and you say I got to solution to this.
Joe: [13:50] That vulnerability piece is the thing that is trapping people.
Laurin: [13:55] The most effective thing that we have is the placebo response, which I’m fully aware of and science has proven over and over again. As soon as you give somebody a glimmer of hope because they’ve been told before “we don’t really know what it could be,” because usually it’s not one thing that is causing a problem, it’s usually a multitude of issues. So, as soon as somebody says, “it’s this,” you’re like, oh my God, ok, this must be it. That’s why we – nutrition gurus or gurus in the industry, whatever it is – people take it so hard, like this must be the issue, and then they just start regurgitating the same information. It’s like whoa, whoa, whoa, how did this people even come about diagnosing this issue? I had a client who went to one of these doctors, and no bloodwork, just looked at her and said, “Oh, you got this laundry list of issues.” And I was like, hmm, that sounds familiar. I’ve heard of other people going to functional medicine doctors who have the exact same problems, hypothetically. Some have had bloodwork, some have not, and now, conveniently, I have $800 worth of supplements to sell you to fix the problems that I’ve diagnosed you with that may or may not even be true. I’m talking viruses, hormonal disruptions, I mean, everything. You can’t look at somebody and say that, right? It comes in all forms. When somebody is coming, you know, has this vulnerability because they’re just looking for a solution, and this company or this person representing a company lists the laundry list of things that it can do for you, there’s two types of people – this is really what we’re seeing – we’re seeing the people who are just buying into it, and they’re buying into the bad products, which we’ll get into. Some of the products don’t even have, literally, CBD in it. Then, what happens is that the other side of the consumers, which is, I would say, a large shift towards, is that it doesn’t work. It must not work because it can’t do all those things. That’s exactly what we saw with the supplement industry. I cannot tell you how many people say things like supplements don’t work. How does that even make sense? First of all, what are you defining as a supplement?
Joe: [16:01] Right.
Laurin: [16:02] And what are you defining as ‘doesn’t work’? Caffeine works. It’s pretty straightforward. Protein powder, pretty straightforward, it works. Fish oil, that works. So, what does ‘it works’ mean? And what happened with the supplement industry years ago is that they basically were making just shit products with a ton of fillers, with zero disclosure on the labels. Now, I will say –
Joe: [16:30] They were all proprietary blends.
Laurin: [16:32] I do understand proprietary blends, because I’ve worked with companies over the years, and I do understand that if you give away everything that sometimes, obviously, that there’s a risk other people are going to copy it, and I’ve literally seen that. People are just, “No, nobody would do that.” People do that…
Joe: [16:47] All the time.
Laurin: [16:48] All the time. So, understandably, there are proprietary blends on certain things, especially, for example, I work with 1st Phorm. Most people, if you know me, you know that. Absolutely love what they do. One of their most popular supplements, Opti-Greens, has a proprietary blend. I’ve seen people rag on it, like you don’t even know what you’re getting, this and that. So, really, you know the difference between 20g or 10g of alfalfa leaf? Just an example. Or whatever it might be. They’re still disclosing every single ingredient, and they’re still disclosing the amounts per those ingredients. I understand when it’s something like caffeine, or a really expensive thing, like citrulline malate. That’s a pretty heavy and expensive product. Or ashwagandha. Kind of important if you’re looking for an efficacious dose. Fish oil. Certain products are going to have the full disclosure, but other ones, it’s not even necessarily that necessary. Do you really know the difference between how much spirulina to this to that to this? It all goes together. I understand where people are coming from when they’ve basically just been fucked over with the proprietary blend stuff, but that’s where you also have to say ok, what is the product, what do I know about these products, and also, what do I know about this company.
Joe: [18:09] That’s, yeah, exactly [inaudible]
Laurin: [18:10] If a company has a really reputable reputation, like 1st Phorm, who, for the most part, they disclose most all of their labels. They have really high manufacturing processes. So, if there’s a product like Opti-Greens that, because it works so well, most people are going to try and copy it, which I know people have. I mean, I’m just imagining that people have. I honestly don’t know.
Joe: [18:34] Well, why wouldn’t you?
Laurin: [18:35] Exactly. If it’s all the rage for one company, why wouldn’t you copy it? So, I have been at other companies where I have seen people legitimately just copy things and start a new business. It’s absolutely insane. But basically the same thing has happened with the supplement industry. There’s been this backlash, and now, there’s all these companies, like 1st Phorm, and there’s other companies as well, who are really trying to put out quality products and quality information. I think what we’re seeing in the CBD industry is like that second step of people being really, really turned off by it because they don’t know what to believe. They don’t know if they’re being promised a laundry list of things. It’s just not reality.
Joe: [19:15] Yeah. Just wait. Just watch what happens over the next couple of years. Right now we’re seeing this explosion. You could put CBD on a plastic bottle and you’re going to sell it. This is meant to happen. Now, I am highly confident that within the next year to two years, probably the next even year, as all the regulations come into place and all the bullshit goes away, like you literally can’t not do the testing and have all the traceability that you really need per the law – like, it’s the law – but as we were saying, it can’t really be enforced yet because just the mass scale of the industry. I can guarantee that a large percentage of the companies that are existing and making money right now are going to go away. 100%.
Laurin: [20:04] For sure. Because it’s going to be exposed that, you know, what they said on the label is not even there. If you look at some of these companies and they’re – what they put on the bottle – which, obviously, we have different bottles, like 500, 1000, 2000. I’ve seen some with even 5000 per bottle, and the amount of money, you’re like, there’s literally no way. There’s certain things that you don’t try to get a good deal on.
Joe: [20:29] Right. Anything that’s for your health.
Laurin: [20:32] I mean, realistically speaking, if you’re looking – and again, I’ll just go back to supplements because I know them so well – protein powder is not cheap. If you get shit protein powder, it’s cheap. So, I don’t know about you, but I’d much rather have protein powder that actually – what I’m paying for is what my body’s digesting. Fish oil. Basically, the two biggest ones are protein and fish oil, are for cost. If you go to somewhere like Costco, or Sam’s, whatever – these big stores – and you see the cheap fish oil… well, the amount of actual EPA and DHA, which is the effective parts, are so low you might need to take 10 servings, or 10 times what they’re recommending, just to get the efficaciously dosed amount of fish oil. So, you’re really probably going to end up spending the same, if not more, and you don’t even know where the quality of that is coming from. The same thing with CBD oil. What’s so great about Cured, that I love, is that all of the COAs are on the website.
Joe: [21:27] Every single batch.
Laurin: [21:28] Every single one.
Joe: [21:29] Every single product.
Laurin: [21:30] I don’t know if enough people know that.
Joe: [21:31] No, they don’t.
Laurin: [21:33] Or, even go to look. Or care?
Joe: [21:36] They don’t know to ask the questions. They don’t know to ask the question.
Laurin: [21:40] And that’s really our job to now step up and say, hey, we have to do a better job at talking about them because that is really the biggest distinguisher. Like, what makes Cured different? Here, this is it.
Joe: [21:49] And the other piece is that – and so many fucking companies are saying this – like, oh, we have our own farm. What the fuck do you mean by that? Last year, all throughout the summer, we had 5-6 guys working the fields, had their hands in the dirt, saw every single plant from little tiny seed or clone up until maturity, through processing, through extraction, into our facility, into the actual formulation, into the bottle, into testing, into the package that gets shipped to the consumer. So, one piece, somebody from Cured had an eye on that product from its inception in the soil to your mouth, basically. That is not – like that’s the thing about even the supplement industry. Let’s be real, most of what you’re consuming is something, more or less, synthetic or extremely highly refined. That can be fine as long as all the purity is there, all the processes are there, all the due diligence is done. Like we know, and I know very well that 1st Phorm does. Now, when you look at the CBD industry, there, right now, are a lot of producers because the industry exploded. There’s a lot of hemp, there’s a lot of… there are a lot of extraction facilities, there’s a lot of bulk powder being sold. Now, where that’s going is into, like from one company, probably into 50, 60 different brand’s products. And all those brands are slapping a different label on it and saying this is ours, it comes from our farm, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Like, whatever. As we scale our business, we aren’t going to be out in the field farming every single plant. It’s just not a cost-effective approach. But what we have done is we’ve come up with very clear and beneficial partnerships with farms down in Pueblo, Colorado and the extraction facilities here in Boulder and in Denver where we can go walk in and still see the process from inception to end. I highly doubt that there are a mass amount of companies that are actually having that oversight on their product. Now, granted, there might be a lot of companies that do have a high-quality product, because they’re getting it from a reputable source. But what has their process been to actually understand and make the decision on who they want to work with, and what type of oversight and traceability do they actually have through that entire process, and how does the consumer understand that? And I don’t think, right now, the consumers are educated enough, or the brands actually have the desire to do that due diligence because they can make money by selling something with CBD on it.
Laurin: [24:51] Exactly. I think a lot of the issues have stemmed from the lack of education from the company to the affiliates. My favorite – this is like, I see this all the time – again, the bottles are going to have different amounts of CBD per bottle, right? Say it’s 1000mg bottle. Based on how much you take out of the dropper is going to be how much CBD you get. Pretty straightforward. The entire bottle has 1000mg of CBD. I can’t tell you how many people I see, and they’re showing the bottle, so I see exactly what they’re talking about – “Oh, I took 1000mg of CBD right now. I feel great!” Like, really? You drank the entire bottle? I highly doubt you’d even be speaking, first of all. There’s literally no way. So, stuff like that, the lack of just education, and people are going to go “I just took 1000mg of CBD.” No, stop.
Joe: [25:42] And like, right there, that means that you didn’t even look at the supplement panel.
Laurin: [25:45] You didn’t look at – you didn’t take half a second. If the bottle said 20,000mg, “I took 20,000mg of CBD right now,” and they took half a dropper. I think part of it too is just companies – and again, we see this in literally every single industry – when there are companies and affiliates and things are growing quickly, and I understand that, from a business perspective, you’re trying to capitalize on it. You’re trying to get people to be an affiliate, you’re trying to spread the word. I understand business. But, doing basic education for people so that they aren’t spreading this misinformation is so, so critical. It’s just, it’s so crazy. I remember years ago, when working booths and events was like the thing, and I was at a show working a booth, and there was this girl who was giving out a sample of a fat burner. She was like, “Take this before you go to bed.” I was like, “Hey, do you know what this is?” She’s like, “Uhh…” I’m like, oh my God, I don’t know how you slipped into this. Actually, I do know; but let’s be honest, I know how you got here, but you’re pretty unintelligent and uninformed on – the only job you have right now is just basically explaining what a few of these samples are, and you’ve completely fucked that, like so bad it’s not even funny. This poor person that’s going to go take this before they go to bed and have a damn heart attack. I mean, and again, I think that now the supplement industry is past that – I mean, this was when I was like 19 – we’re past that, I think. Not fully, clearly not fully.
Joe: [27:26] Bang still exists.
Laurin: [27:29] There’s still plenty of bad information. But, I do think that it’s gotten significantly better. Maybe I’m just looking at it through a positive perspective, but I do think that the general consumer’s a lot more educated when it comes to supplements now. I think that CBD is going through those growing pains right now, and we’ve really, really pushed a lot of people to not want to even try the product, or believe that it can do anything, because of all the promises. So, for me, for example, the biggest thing that I see with CBD consistently is improved sleep. I’m not out here saying, you know, it fixed my sleep and my anxiety and my digestion, which I do think that it does help with – kind of a sub-sector I do think that it does help mildly with anxiety, and I do think that it does help mildly with digestion, especially if people have kind of weird digestion issues – I know that some people, it really, really benefits them, like a lot more than others. For example, my mom has diverticulosis. It’s not like diverticulitis, but it’s similar. So, she’ll have these issues where you basically have an infection and all this stuff. I was like, hey, let’s try CBD. There is, obviously, the systems within the stomach lining and etc. So, she’s had amazing results with that. Twice a day, takes the oil, knock on wood, no issues since then. And she was having flare-ups quite a bit.
Joe: [29:02] Yeah.
Laurin: [29:03] Now, do I think that that’s all placebo? No, I don’t, because obviously, it’s not like she would want to have that. Now, with something like anxiety, it’s a little bit harder to see what is this helping with. But again, if somebody is getting those benefits, who am I to say that it’s not working for them? I do think that, at least for me, the sleep is the biggest thing, but I’m here saying it helps with your sleep and it’s going to cure your cancer. Like, no. I mean, people just say the most radical stuff, and this goes to any industry, they’re just going to say that. I think you should have to be wary of what people are saying and understand that you’re going to get a benefit from it… and be realistic with that benefit. Also, I think a lot of people might try it, and they might a company that has not so great quality, and they’re like, it didn’t do anything. Well, it might not have done anything because you actually didn’t get anything out of it. You might not have had enough dosage.
Joe: [30:02] Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve seen… right, 100%. There might not have been any CBD in there. Actually, our Director of Sales has spent the last couple of years in the industry from a bulk supply standpoint, and now working with our brand. He – I can’t remember what the actual company is, and I really – oh yeah, it’s Hemp Bombs. They make these gummies, they’ve got this really annoying bright green packaging, I think they’re very popular, actually, in Florida, to be honest, and I had seen some people representing them at one point. Bought some of their product. They’re actually at a bunch of gas stations on just like the counters. First of all, if it’s at the gas station, like ask a question there. We’re trying to improve our health and wellness; we’re buying something for 5 bucks at a gas station. If that’s not a red flag, I don’t know what is. Second of all-
Laurin: [30:57] If you need a sign, this is it.
Joe: [31:02] Like, what else do you buy at a convenience store?
Laurin: [31:05] M&Ms, water.
Joe: [31:08] I buy water, and gas for my car.
Laurin: [31:11] Only M&Ms when I’m being really fat.
Joe: [31:16] But that’s the thing. That should raise a red flag. Second of all, when he did purchase it and actually had it tested, zero CBD was in it. So, people that were using it and actually saw a benefit from it then were getting a placebo effect. And Iike, you know what? Maybe that happened once and maybe it’s been corrected. I don’t really know the whole story, but the thing is, there’s a lot of shitty quality product out there and there is not enough understanding from a consumer standpoint on what they’re getting. Then, when we talk about using something and not seeing an effect, the big thing that I always tell people is, unless it’s something like our Rise product where you feel the effects like within 30 minutes, and you feel like, ok, I’m alert, I’m ready to go, I can think really clearly, I have this clarity that I didn’t have before. You feel it, so you get that instantaneous feedback. People are always looking for that. Now, if you don’t feel the calming effects from CBD – which I am highly confident are there – if you don’t feel that then and you write it off, and you’re like well ok, this doesn’t work, and you don’t try it for an extended amount of time, how the hell do you know if it’s working for you or not? Does somebody come to you and say I want to lose 5lbs, 10lbs, and then they do the diet for a week, and they’re like, well fuck this. And actually, that does happen.
Laurin: [32:55] Yes.
Joe: [32:56] So, of course, but like, where do we actually see that people are getting the last results that they’re looking for, whether it be in the coaching and training industry, whether it be starting a new diet or nutrition plan, or taking a new supplement. How long did you use it for, and to be honest, we’ve seen people see benefits from it from an inflammation standpoint and feeling certain pieces of their body have relief over time, and then come off of it and say, oh, well I actually feel this discomfort or pain a little bit more and it’s coming back; I didn’t even notice that it was gone while I was taking the CBD, but now that I came off of it, I’m actually noticing that I was seeing a benefit from it. That’s the thing that I’ve heard over and over again. Ok, well, how are you taking it, how are you [inaudible] it, how are you analyzing your body, what else is going on in your life? And that’s the whole thing from Cured’s perspective, is that the company was created to lift the stigma off of cannabis. The first identified path for that, or avenue, was through CBD. Something that was nonintoxicating, and came from the cannabis plant, and people could actually use, and health and fitness professionals could show that, ok, I’m seeing the benefit from it and I have been a cannabis user in some form, and look at me, I am not somebody that can’t get off the couch and stop munching. Like, that was the big idea, right? So, Cured – and the word and the company – came the company idea and brand came from the fact that we just need to shift people’s perspective off of this crazy idea around the cannabis plant. And wow, did we think that in 2 years the industry would be where it is now? No. So, now we just sit here and we say we want to continue to be the educators and the most transparent people that we can be, and there are going to be other companies that rise really quickly and frustrate the shit out of me. But, all I can say is I don’t think that that is actually the way to approach a building a viable and sustainable business, and we’ll see where you are in a couple of years.
Laurin: [35:27] Yeah, well, how quickly people rise is not an indicator of how long they’ll last.
Joe: [35:31] No.
Laurin: [35:32] I think we’ve seen that over and over again with literally every facet of life. So, while it is frustrating, you know, I feel the frustration on, really, all ends. Like, with the long game and the slow climb.
Joe: [35:43] Talk about that. Talk about your world that you live in day to day, because this is like, these are the conversations we’ve been having over the last day.
Laurin: [35:50] Very similar.
Joe: [35:51] And like, it is so similar. It’s partially due to social media.
Laurin: [35:58] I do think, I mean, a huge part of it is social media, and a huge part of it is just the culture of media. You know what I mean? It’s also just human nature in general. People are always going to seek out the quicker, even if they say they don’t. As much as I love the process and how long things take, if somebody legitimately had a way for me to get a six pack in a week, you don’t think that I would do that? Of course! Even though I understand it’s not possible, but there’s still that glimmer of hope maybe this would work. And the farther you are from comfortable, and the longer you have to go, the more willing you are to do those kinds of things. If you’re, hey, I’d love to lose a few pounds, it’s not going to make or break my life – well, alright. If you’re somebody who’s extremely unhappy with where they’re at physically, mentally, hormonal, there’s so many different ways that you could be unwell, unhealthy, you’re going to want a more dramatic approach just no matter what. Generally speaking, the harder and the more dramatic things are, the farther the pendulum is going to swing at some point. I see this a lot with, just in general, with inquiries. We have an extensive inquiry process on our website, and people – for the most part, if somebody’s like – the ultimately inquiry is when somebody’s like I haven’t dieted in a year, I’m really focused on building my metabolism and my relationship with food, I would love to diet at some point, but whenever you think is ready. It’s like, whoa, ok, sign this person up right now. But most people will have, well, I’d love to build muscle and lose weight at the same time. Or lose fat, not weight. I’m like, ok, well, we need to have a conversation about this. Yes, is body recomp a thing? Of course. It generally doesn’t happen to people outside of the beginner. And even if it does happen, it will happen very, very, very slowly. So hey, you got 3 years? We can probably body recomp in 3 years. You’ll be the same weight, but – so, you know, it’s really about educating the person on the long-term goal, which is very, very, very hard to get people in the doorway. Most people want hey, I’ll get you on stage – for example, I coach a lot of competitors – oh, I’ll get you on stage in 12 weeks. Nope. None of our clients are doing that. Literally zero, I would say almost zero of our clients are getting on stage within 12 weeks of a diet. It’s just not the reality. I coach mostly natural females. It’s just not happening, right? The way they have to get bodyfat off and preserve lean muscle mass, it’s just not happening. Same thing with somebody – we work with, again a lot of lifestyle clients – I want to lose all this weight. I want to lose 30lbs this month. Well, unless you’re 400lbs, you’re not going to do that. Of course, the more that you weigh, the more weight that you can lose; but if you are a normal, even maybe slightly overweight for what you consider to be healthy, weight, it’s not going to be as fast. You know what I mean? It’s something that’s so, so challenging to educate people on, and how do you create a message that is speaking to the long-term, but also is getting people interested enough to reach out? Because what’s going to happen is that they’re going to find the person who says “I’ll get you to lose 20lbs this weekend!” It’s just like, alright, sign me up.
Joe: [39:23] That’s frustrating.
Laurin: [39:24] They’re still going to those people. You have to navigate away to figure out how am I going to attract the right type of clients, but ultimately, how am I going to help more people? Because I don’t want them going to these bad systems and these bad coaches. I would say that there’s a lot of – so the coaching industry is, of course, very saturated. Everybody thinks that they’re a coach, and this kind of goes into a different – there’s different realms of coaching. There’s a lot of people who will compete in competitive physique sports and they do a show or two and they’re oh, I’m going to start coaching. And you think like this is a joke, that people don’t actually do this, but I just heard an example from another coach, they had a client who was prepping but could barely stick to it kind of thing. Just like really not hacking it, just you should probably work on this. Barely made it through, ended up switching coaches. Ended up getting on stage but should not have kind of deal. Did a show and then made a post a week later – “Hey! Taking on clients for competition prep,” this and that. It’s like, wait, you barely made it through your prep. Now all of a sudden, you’ve done one show, which was questionable, and now you want to coach other people. And I don’t think that a lot of these people have malicious intents, but I do think there has to be some kind of period where you’ve either had experience or you’ve had education, or ideally, you’ve had both. But, this is a real thing, I’m starting coaching after one show.
Joe: [40:56] And so you know your body, kind of.
Laurin: [40:58] Yeah, which is great starting place.
Joe: [41:00] Yeah, you know YOURS. That’s it.
Laurin: [41:01] Yeah. Really good starting place. Then, there’s the other coaching that’s kind of come out of the anti-diet culture, which is so interesting to me. People like, come to me and you’re never going to diet again and you’re going to have the best confidence ever, girl, and you’re going to this and that. But, you know, sign up for my dieting coaching. You’re like, wait, what? What am I signing up for?
Joe: [41:24] I think you just said 2 different things.
Laurin: [41:26] Like I’m – doesn’t matter what I eat, but we’re also going to see results. That just doesn’t happen. You know what I mean? There’s a lot of conflicting messages as far as what’s going on, and I’m fully, fully understanding that everybody has to have their first client. You have to have your first client. You’re not going to be super qualified when you have your first client.
Joe: [41:45] And you’re going to fail with some.
Laurin: [41:46] Yes.
Joe: [41:47] Even when you have multiple.
Laurin: [41:48] I mean, when I first started, my first slew of clients for those first formative years, thankfully I learned so much from that and now I’m better. Did I harm anybody? No, of course I didn’t harm anybody. Could they have gotten better results with the information I have now? Yeah, of course, but that’s taken me 6 years. But also, when I did start, I did have a background, as far as education goes. I was in school – which does not mean you have to go to school to be a coach. I’m fully aware. That’s a whole different argument. I do think it’s beneficial to have advanced education, just my personal opinion, or high levels of self-education, which most people do not do because they just don’t want to spend the time doing it, or they honestly don’t know how. Which is part of why school is great, it teaches you how to learn. School doesn’t teach you anything besides how to learn.
Joe: [42:39] 100%
Laurin: [42:40] Literally that is why you should go to school, is to learn how to learn, and to continue to educate yourself for the rest of your life. You may pick up a few things here and there. Obviously, I’m a big proponent of graduate school because you can do research; and if you’re interest in research, that is like the only ways to learn through that. But you can totally self-educate. It’s just a lot harder if you haven’t had that kind of background. Anyways, off of that. You know, having some kind of education. There’s also just great things now, which I don’t think replace a degree, or degrees, but there are elite certifications to kind of get you in the door. And you can learn basic understanding. There are a lot of, even scientific certifications, from like, ISSN has one, which is International Society Sports Nutrition. NSCA – National Strength Conditioning Association. The are two ones. There’s also ones that blend science and coaching. My good friend Dr. Joe Klemczewski, one of his many businesses is now this, it’s called NAMS. So, basically it is a combination of, you know, you’re learning the science that is applicable; you’re also learning the coaching process as well. So, it’s kind of a good blend. N-A-M-S, just type that in. There’s that, and then there’s also – yeah, you should probably, if you’re going to coach certain people – you should have experience in your own endeavors. You should, if you are going to be trying to coach competitors, you should have competed. If you’re going to coach lifestyle people, you need to have some kind of experience in dieting and offseason yourself. What happens is, a lot of people will go get coaching, again air quotes, from people who look good on social media. Just because somebody has abs means absolutely nothing, like what they know as far as a credibility standpoint. And when you say that, everybody goes yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I know that. Then why are these people still like join my 8-week challenge! I have a million followers. Look at how great I look!
Joe: [44:43] Ohhhh… yeah.
Laurin: [44:44] That’s a whole system. People literally make their lives off of 8-week challenges.
Joe: [44:49] I am well aware, and I’ve seen a lot of it in the last year and half, to be honest. And heard a lot about the innerworkings and seen a lot of those innerworkings. One, you’re just playing into people’s insecurities.
Laurin: [45:03] What do you actually think is going to happen in 8 weeks? Going back to 1st Phorm, they do a really great job at this because at first they use to have these short challenges, but now they’ve actually broken down – they have a yearly transformation challenge – they’ve broken it into shorter sprints so that people stay motivated. But it’s still about the big picture. It’s not about what can you do in 8 weeks and that’s it. It’s 8 weeks and then we kind of reassess, then 8 weeks again, 8 weeks again. That is a way better system. We’re look at it as the whole year. So, I won’t trash talk all 8-week challenges because there are certain benefits to them, and I understand that it’s getting people started and it’s getting results going. But if that’s the only thing that you can offer, I don’t think that it’s necessarily the best service for people. You have to be able to offer an exit strategy. After these 8 weeks of dieting, what’s happening afterwards? Enough people don’t focus on that. So they diet, lose a little bit of weight, gain some more – oh, I’ll do another challenge – do it again, and that’s called yo-yo dieting. People do that on their own, people do that in a challenge, people do that in all sorts of fashions. It’s really, the state of the coaching industry is very interesting. Probably the worst of it all is the people who are basically claiming to be therapists, who have zero background in any of this, like zero. Zero background. Now, as a coach, as a nutrition and a training coach, fully aware of my scope of practice. That does not mean that I shy away from psychological conversations. That’s pretty much the biggest thing that I’m talking about.
Joe: [46:36] It’s driving a lot.
Laurin: [46:39] The psychology is driving everything – the habit building, the habit forming, the accountability, the open communication. That’s all psychology related.
Joe: [46:46] Repetitive thoughts that you have.
Laurin: [46:48] That is what I’m doing on a fairly daily basis. Depending on the client, some people need more than that, some people need less than that. But I’m never taking the place of a therapist, and I have many clients who have therapists in conjunction with working with me, and I’ve had to tell many clients over the years if you don’t get therapy, I won’t work with you anymore. And we really need to do this. I understand that a lot of people are… hesitant to do therapy because there are a lot of bad therapists. Just like there’s bad coaches, there’s plenty of bad therapists, and I’ve heard about those too because I’ve had clients who go places, and I’m like, whoa, they said what to you? Like, that is absolutely insane. Depending on the schooling, or just the way that they’ve been brought up with what they learned, or their own kind of notions, whatever it may be, there are plenty of bad therapists as well. They’re just not, oh, go to therapy, it’ll be great. So, I always tell people you might have to try a few therapists to see who you like, don’t like, who you jive with – just like coaching. Sometimes you just don’t mesh with people. That’s ok, it’s all about communication. You’re not going to go in there – I’ve heard the craziest stuff, especially because a lot of what I do – if a therapist isn’t aware of what we do, particularly for my competitors, it’s going to be very hard for them to understand that this is not a huge issue. And there is a difference between borderline disordered eating and being neurotic, as far as the end of a contest prep, vs. you have a full-blown eating disorder. There are, obviously, nuances there that are very hard for some therapists to pick up just because, understandably, if I didn’t know what was going on with a competitor, I would have – you’d be like, wait, you’re talking about what? Why are you, this is crazy. But, most of that comes down to just the low bodyfat. It just makes people literally crazy.
Joe: [48:43] Yeah, 100%.
Laurin: [48:45] You’re in a low – you’re not only eating very low, which causes psychological distress, but you also have a low bodyfat, so the two compounded, it’s just… semi-starvation if you’re getting on stage. So, there’s going to be issues with that. Going to a therapist at that point might be like, ok, well – that’s going to be a red flag to many people, unless they are somebody who’s been-
Joe: [49:06] Rightfully so, too.
Laurin: [49:08] Oh, for sure. But, also-
Joe: [49:10] Do you understand, like if that’s all you’re looking at is the symptom and you don’t understand everything else.
Laurin: [49:16] Back to the point of all of this – therapists are great. There’s good and bad, you need to find out what works for you, but I understand within a scope of when I need to refer somebody out. But then there’s people who have zero experience coaching and zero psychology background who are basically promising the world about fixing your anxiety and your depression and your food focus and all of this, through their 8-week program. It’s so frustrating. Because you are, again, the people who are going to be signing up for that actually probably need real help. They really probably need true help and they’re seeing that as a lower barrier to entry, like this person seems legit, I’ll trust them, I’ll sign up for this. Not to say that all those people are doing bad things, but it just might not be optimal, and it might not be the help that that person truly needs.
Joe: [50:10] Yeah, again, are you asking as the consumer, as the person that’s going and that needs coaching or needs help, are you asking the correct questions? Because any person that is in that coach role, if they’re doing it correctly, will take the time and effort to answer any question that you have. That’s the whole goal, is to get – the whole goal of anything that we’re talking about is to not create a dependency, but create an independency – so you grab all of the information and the education and the understanding to be able to “graduate” whatever it may be. When you have a client, yes, you’re looking at the long-term goals, and some people may work with you for 3-5 years. But there is a graduation standpoint. You don’t want a lifelong client, because they’re doing something wrong if they’re a lifelong client.
Laurin: [51:06] Yeah, there’s different situations for everybody. It depends, really, on… I mean, there’s so many factors to the length of clients. But generally speaking, you want somebody to grow and to be autonomous at some point. Now, are there always going to be facets that they would like to have help with, especially, again, a competitive person? Yeah. I mean, I would say that most competitors, at some point, will have somebody who’s helping them. It’s just going to be the best way to augment results.
Joe: [51:34] Yeah. You need the push. Accountability.
Laurin: [51:38] But at the same time, you’re trying to – the entire way, you are creating an autonomous relationship with them. We’re fostering independence here, and we’re fostering thoughts so that you can – you know why I’m doing something. Now, if I don’t have the answer, I’ll tell you, hey, we’re just trying this, or hey, I’ve seen this before with clients; I don’t know why it’s working, still haven’t figured that out, but let’s do it.
Joe: [52:03] Anecdotal evidence.
Laurin: [52:05] Oh, for sure. I am not against that at all. A lot of what I do is based out of anecdote, and that is how science truly starts. A lot of the research-
Joe: [52:13] You wouldn’t go down a path if you didn’t see something happening.
Laurin: [52:16] No. That’s why we did my research. There’s no other research that’s been done like that, but we had research in the field that said well, we want to look at these two things directly. And most of what Campbell’s doing now is honestly just stuff that we’ve all been doing as coaches that I’ve talked to him and he’s talked to other coaches about for years. Now, we’re finally get research on it. So, does it make it more or less valid? No. But now, we at least have something to say we’re actually quantifying this and actually seeing who this worked for. So, it’s all about kind of knowing your scope. The other new thing is people are always, “Oh, I’ll fix your hormones.” I’m like alright, you’re trying to tell me, with zero endocrinology background, and zero schooling, you’re going to figure out somebody’s hormones. Now, I am big on understanding hormones and bloodwork. I have a lot of clients get bloodwork. I can look it over and give basic suggestions. I mean, there’s certain things that are pretty obvious – ok, you’re Vitamin D’s low; we’re going to fix that. I feel pretty comfortable with that, or at least I can say based on the reference ranges that I’ve researched, this is where we should be for optimal levels, and you’re not here. Feel pretty comfortable with that. But at that point, that’s when I say, hey, there’s an issue; you should go see somebody. The first line of defense shouldn’t be me saying, “Oh, I know how to fix all of this.” No, you don’t. And now, that’s another thing. People – I’m going to fix your hormones. I’m going to fix your mental health. I’m going to fix your gut health! That’s the new huge one. I actually did – Gabrielle Fundaro – you know her?
Joe: [53:51] Yeah.
Laurin: [53:52] She’s awesome. Actually did consulting with her a few weeks ago, just to learn for clients. I basically said, hey, can I hire you for two hours? I want to just ask a few questions. So, I’m armored now with a little more information that I can help clients with to a certain extent. If it’s over my head, then I say I have a great person to refer to; I refer to her. If she can’t help? Hey, guess what? You go to a gastroenterologist. There’s – now I have a system that we can work through – because if you don’t have to go to that person and we can fix it beforehand, great. But sometimes, there’s things that are completely out of my scope, her scope – she’s obviously way more intelligent in that area than me – but she’s even going to say when it’s out of her scope. All of those things, like if some coach – kind of like CBD, right – if some coach is promising you that they’re going to fix your gut health, your hormones, your mental health, and get you shredded all at the same time for a low price of $100 for 8-weeks-
Joe: [54:46] Run away!
Laurin: [54:47] Yeah! Just please, please run.
Joe: [54:50] Turn and run.
Laurin: [54:51] A good coach will help with all of those facets, but I would never, I would never myself, or any one of my coaches, claim that we have the solution to any of those things. We’re going to try our hardest to continue our education That’s why I’m always trying to read new things, learn new things, travel places, learn from others. Of course, so I have an understanding of what to do for my clients. But there’s a certain level that we can help with. So, there’s my whole diatribe about the coaching industry.
Joe: [55:19] It’s a crazy world.
Laurin: [55:21] It’s the same thing though. It’s the same thing with supplement industry, it’s the same thing with CBD. We were talking about this yesterday, it’s almost like when you say I sell CBD, people are like ok, man, and now it’s like, I’m an online coach. People are like, alright, this chick is crazy.
Joe: [55:36] Like, fuck you.
Laurin: [55:38] It’s like no, no, no, I’m one of the good ones! I promise I’m on your side!
Joe: [55:43] This preconceived notion, like that you-
Laurin: [55:46] “Oh, that doesn’t work.”
Joe: [55:47] Yeah, ok, whatever. Honestly, I gotta pop into another meeting, but I want to wrap up real quick with – part of the reason that we have yourself and other affiliates out here, and people that have helped represent the brand, is to just check in and understand how we’re doing, and how we can better ourselves to better support you guys and better build our brand. And one of the things we talked about was just like, product usages. So, I wanted to spend a quick minute on how – like what your maybe two favorite products are and why you use them and how.
Laurin: [56:21] So, for me, I talked about the – my favorite is definitely the effect on sleep – I have no doubt. So, daily is the oil tinctures, pretty much morning and night. I take that when I’m traveling. I love the gelcaps just because they’re super convenient.
Joe: [56:37] And powerful.
Laurin: [56:38] Yeah, they’re super powerful. Usually, I will take about 30mg of the oil, like morning and night. That’s been like my new favorite amount. I’ve found that’s the best for me, or I’ll take the 30mg capsules. I’ve traveled with the oil as well, but you have to make sure it’s super tightly sealed and in a baggy and the whole deal. The gelcaps are perfect for that. The full spectrum is my favorite in comparison to the other one. So, that’s like the baseline, everyday taking that. Then, I do love Zen. Zen’s definitely my jam. Now, I do love Rise. It’s on the table right now. Took that. I do take Rise a lot of mornings, so I do really enjoy that. But I would say Zen definitely edges it out for me a little bit as far as just like, damn, when I take that, I’m getting a really good night’s sleep.
Joe: [57:32] It’s a powerhouse.
Laurin: [57:33] So, I take that a few nights a week, and same thing with the Rise. I take that a few days a week too. What’s great about Rise is there is no caffeine. I do really enjoy coffee, so I have found that a lot of the focus stuff will have caffeine. Which is not bad because I love caffeine, but if you want to have coffee as well, it can be a little much, you know what I mean?
Joe: [57:54] Where’d Laurin go? She’s running around the block again.
Laurin: [57:55] Yeah, I’m losing it. Well, I’m super jet-lagged, so all the caffeine is necessary. Yeah, so it’s perfect. I’ll have it, make my cup of coffee in the morning, take my Rise, take my other morning supplements, start working, I’m good to go.
Joe: [58:09] We talked about proprietary blends. We have proprietary blends in the Rise and the Zen. There’s the balance blend in the Zen and the flow blend in the Rise. Again, every single ingredient is list in there, I’m just not telling at what concentration, because I don’t want to give that away because we spent a long time with our clinical herbalist formulating these things.
Laurin: [58:28] Now, the CBD on the actual bottle, you know how much CBD is in there. That is important for some people to know just based on if they need to change their total daily dosages. I would say that oil or gelcap, staple, and then Zen, and then I’d say after that is definitely Rise.
Joe: [58:47] Cool. How can people learn more from you? You got a couple podcasts. You’ve got your Instagram, YouTube. Let everybody know how they can learn more from you and your company.
Laurin: [58:59] Just, first and foremost, go to teamlocofit.com. You’ll find a lot of the stuff there, so all my podcasts that I have – we have the Team LoCoFit Round Table, Redefine Health Radio, and UNglamorous Life – so, that’s all on the website. We have a newsletter where we put out educational articles every week. We are working on getting the articles actually on the site as well. Articles will be on there too. YouTube is just my name, L-A-U-R-I-N C-O-N-L-I-N, same as my Instagram, and then the team instragram is @teamlocofit. You can find me on any of those channels, which is a lot. But if you spell my name right, you’ll probably find most of things.
Joe: [59:39] Yeah, dope. Awesome. Thanks, Laurin. Appreciate it.
Laurin: [59:41] Thank you.